Bot Lane is the "Support" of Dominion

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RikkuHime

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Pick OP champs and bully your opponent.

That's what I like about bot lane...


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

02-19-2012

I quite like the dynamic of the Dominion bot lane. It's like a 1v1 SR lane, except it feels like a competition to push against your opponent, while SR often feels like a competition to win in CS.

With that said, I do have to agree that it devolves into a stalemate too easily. I'm not quite sure what the solution is.

Reduce sustain (perhaps remove the middle health pack, weaken the boost from catalyst - RoA)? That would make more clear winners and losers, but it might reduce the variety of champions.

Stacking vulnerability, like "Takes 10% increased damage" per minute without a kill, death, assist or capture? Would eliminate stalemates, but favour bursty champs too much.

It might be interesting to have bot lane pushing affect the rest of the match. Say, for every friendly minion past the halfway mark, everyone on your team gets a 2% damage boost. Pushing your opponent would have a big impact even if you can't actually take the point.


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Yetis In Need

Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
It might be interesting to have bot lane pushing affect the rest of the match. Say, for every friendly minion past the halfway mark, everyone on your team gets a 2% damage boost. Pushing your opponent would have a big impact even if you can't actually take the point.
Another possibility is to make Dominion points work a little like the new jungle monster XP works: the longer a point remains in one team's possession, the more points it's worth to the enemy team.

So for example, a bot point that hasn't been touched for 10 minutes that is finally capped after you've been slugging against it for ages gives you (let's say) 20 bonus points against the enemy when you finally cap it.

But a point that's regularly changing hands like the Windmill gives almost no bonus and so has no effect on the current state of play.

Doing this would also make backdooring a mid (or taking something other than Windmill as the dominant team) a more appealing option.

I dunno if it's a great idea, but I'd really bot lane to feel like it matters more to the game if you're stuck with maybe 1-2 caps a game.


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SirTimbo

Senior Member

02-20-2012

There are some sleeper power bots like Amumu (counters yorick and has pushing power/can survive ganks) that can really force more to come bot. Also picking malz and switching with an AD when your lane enemy rushes a QSS is also good.


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Denambren

Senior Member

02-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basoosh View Post
In my experience, the answer completely varies depending on a player's Elo.

Until the 1800 range, there's nowhere else I'd rather be than bot. Ganks from the other team are pretty rare, allowing you to play very aggressive and push. And when people do come to gank, they often don't use the fog of war correctly. There's also very little (if any) Revive, which turns a bot lane kill into a neutralize or capture. If you're noticeably better than your opponent or get a good matchup, you will run them over and be a huge menace. There's nowhere better to carry a game from than the bottom lane.

Around 1800+ is where I found it to become very stalemate-ish. People are forced to play more careful, as ganks are continually going on and players really start to maximize the Fog of War. Your primary goal at that point is to hold your node without dying. The recent US meta seems to be shifting away from this a bit, but I think it is still quite strong to send someone bot lane, get farmed up, then swap later on. Halfway decent last hitting can get you a really nice gold advantage.
I agree with this completely.

I really enjoyed playing bot as Master Yi (AD) for quite a while, because he had the capacity to move in for the kill frequently enough when the moment was right, and you could turn the tide of a game by repeatedly killing your lane opponent. But after I got into the higher elo (playing vs 2200+), I saw that Master Yi (and any non-durable champ) really can't survive bot because of how easy it is to be ganked.

Champions like Heimer and Caitlyn (found more commonly in lower elo as bot champs) are other examples of champs that just don't cut it when ganking is frequent.

At the higher levels of play I find myself playing Gragas or Chogath and pushing the lane to a stalemate until ganks show up, or until someone on my team attempts to backcap their bot (in which case you just harass the enemy champ bot to slow him from reaching his point).

The gameplay is very repetitive on bot while you wait for something to happen. This is true up into the highest levels of elo possible (Sauron teams, mollica teams, and Jjaja's Udyr bot as the most "current gen" examples of high rating I've played against lately).

With that said, I can say there is some kind of pride in playing the "goaltender" of bot and keeping the tower from getting scored on. So I can see the appeal to some people, but there are those days when the match just goes on and on and there's very little ganking for whatever reason, but you and your opponent are both stuck playing tanky champions on bot to survive the ganks that never really came, so there isn't a whole lot going on there either. You just sort of finish the match and say "gg" to everyone after having spent 20 mins killing the three creeps over and over and playing conservatively. Doesn't even really matter if you won or lost at that point, since the outcome could have swung either way and you could have done very little to influence it (Soraka bot gets to use her heal ult now and then, as an exception).


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Rebonack

Senior Member

02-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTimbo View Post
There are some sleeper power bots like Amumu (counters yorick and has pushing power/can survive ganks) that can really force more to come bot. Also picking malz and switching with an AD when your lane enemy rushes a QSS is also good.
Or you can pick Malz and still murder your opponent anyway when they rush a QSS since you went with AD Malz.

That's what I do =D

I consider every QSS I force the enemy team to buy trying to 'counter' me a badge of honor =3


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Forbiddian

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Senior Member

02-20-2012

I'm currently dabbling around 1900, so I guess I'm in between the zones where bot is great and where bot sucks.

I like playing an AD bot and just farming. After your first back, even if you're against a strong pusher, they can't push enough to actually claim the point. It will take them several minutes of 1v1 siege on your point to get a cap. If you just get the slightest breeze of a gank, you can hold the point and farm up. You both end up fed, but a fed Vayne, Corki, Graves, etc. is much stronger than a fed AP. Late-game, you just switch with someone who has enough wave clear that they don't lose bot and then you unload your 15k gold right click on everyone.

As I Elo up, I think the strategy to run an AD carry will become less viable. But I think you *need* to put a hypercarry bot. Like an Udyr, Jax, Nasus, Graves, etc. or you need to gank the enemy bot so often that they can't get huge. Either way, the bot lane champions get quite a bit of farm and scale very hard.


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evilXkilla

Senior Member

02-20-2012

I like how somebody above mentioned bot being a "distraction". I find that very true. Bot is not for every1, but it's part of what gives depth to Dominion. I do agree that it does require some tweaks.


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illundreal

Senior Member

02-20-2012

My only issue with being bot is that when i'm bot the enemy will send someone down to gank ever 2 minutes and my team never does. Despite the enemy being the one overextended.


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Rebonack

Senior Member

02-20-2012

Just for a bit of background...

I carried myself up to 2k Elo (presently creeping up on 2.1k) with AD Malzahar bot. Obviously playing other things as well, but he's been my main focus. I have noticed that things tend to stalemate a little bit more at high levels. You have to be a lot more careful about ganks and so forth.

If I'm pretty sure I can push/kill my opponent before Blitz comes chugging out of the fog of war to ram his fist up my ass then it's time to spam like there's no tomorrow! If that isn't an option then I'll try to get a minion wave rolling and go help out with a team fight nearby 'n float back before bot gets taken.

If I'm up against someone who can match my push then I have a couple options. I can flatten minion waves just outside of my tower range and call for a gank (usually successful due to LAZORVISIONBLAAAAAARGH) or I can try to aggressively zone my foe out of their casting range. It works for Malz mostly because he has a huge kill zone around him when two Voidlings are skittering about.

The latter is dangerous, of course, due to the aforementioned issue with impromptu Blitzcrank rectal examinations. But I guess that's where keeping a close eye on the mini-map comes in handy.

...wow that's a lot of rambling.

Anywho! An aggressive bot lane works best when your team controls Windmill and (more importantly) controls the jungle. If you control Windmill and the Jungle then you can play quite aggressively without too much worry. And should you manage to take the enemy bot and then re-enforce it with another team mate? Well... played right that can quickly lead to a 5-cap and a fast game.

If your team doesn't control Windmill and the jungle then it's probably a good idea to play defensively unless you can see the whole enemy team on the mini-map.


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