It's too hard for Mages to hit 40% cdr cap

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volandum View Post
You could go 9 offense 21 defense for scaling CDR.
15/15/0 is much better.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GeneralStan

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Get your support to buy Soul Shroud, Blue Pot, Blue Buff

40% 0 items. Substitute CDR blues and 9 Offense for the Soul Shroud and get to 39% and change


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R View Post
Mages are a weak class partly because of the strength of AD casters and assassins, and also due to the expensive cost of their best items, and the lack of cdr provided by blue buff.

Being able to hit the 40% cdr cap is very important for ability dependent champions. This is further exacerbated by many AP carries being ult dependent. While mages can build cdr items this detracts from building Rabadon's which is a very important mage item.

Cdr mage items:
ionian boots - 15%
kindlegem - 10%
DFG - 15%
Morello's Tome - 20%
Runes - 5%
21 offense - 4%
9 offense 21 utilty - 10%

The cheapest way to hit 40% cdr on a mage is to go 21 utility, and bring cdr runes for 15%. This leaves a 25% gap which requires 2 items to hit the 40% cap. If 2 cdr items are bought this strongly delays building important items like Rabadon's, RoA, or Abyssal Scepter.
One of the major problems with mages and itemization right now is that Deathcap is such a power boost and if you're not rushing it you tend to feel like you're behind in relative strength to other champions, especially other mages that rush Deathcap. Sadly this leaves us in a state of choosing between utility/usability or competitive damage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wish they would actually remove Deathcap and just add 40-50~ AP(whatever they deem balanced) to each of the other current items. That way we could actually have some diversity in our builds and can choose to rush things like Rylias, Wota, Cdr, Hp/Mp, Activatable items, etc. while still having comparible damage. As it is it's really boring building that one *must have* item just to keep up with the arms race.

Imo if Deathcap was removed and the other items' AP was adjusted accordingly we would see much more diverse builds from mages and much higher usage of more obscure items like DFG, Morello's Evil Tome, Nashor's and even Lichbane and Malady on more standard casters. I can't count the number of casters I'd love to be able to rush and build straight into something like Rylias + DFG or Rylias + Lichbane and not have to worry about my damage output falling behind.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralStan View Post
Get your support to buy Soul Shroud, Blue Pot, Blue Buff

40% 0 items. Substitute CDR blues and 9 Offense for the Soul Shroud and get to 39% and change
Real.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AbsolutePK

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralStan View Post
Blue Pot, Blue Buff
Sorry sir, it seems you've wandered off the beaten path.

You're in the Dominion forums, such things aren't available to us.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

larkhill

Senior Member

02-19-2012

excuse me? too hard to get 40%? are u crazy?

flat cdr blues - 5.85%
8 points in offensive tree - 4%
kindlegem - 10%
cdr boots - 15%

thats 34.85% cdr for only 1900 gold.


you need kindlegem anyway since hextech sweeper is so good. or u could get shurelias or visage. kindlegem is an amazing item. and 15% cdr for that cheap makes cdr boots worth it for any mage.

edit: if u really value cdr that much, it doesnt matter if u use sweeper or not. the hp and cdr alone are worth it.

your move sir


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkhill View Post
excuse me? too hard to get 40%? are u crazy?

flat cdr blues - 5.85%
8 points in offensive tree - 4%
kindlegem - 10%
cdr boots - 15%

thats 34.85% cdr for only 1900 gold.


you need kindlegem anyway since hextech sweeper is so good. or u could get shurelias or visage. kindlegem is an amazing item. and 15% cdr for that cheap makes cdr boots worth it for any mage.

edit: if u really value cdr that much, it doesnt matter if u use sweeper or not. the hp and cdr alone are worth it.

your move sir
He listed all of those methods in his OP, considering how much you're giving up when you do that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

larkhill

Senior Member

02-19-2012

as i stated in my post, if u value CDR so highly, giving up 1900 gold for it is nothing. u will never get all your cdr in 1 item anyway so you're going to spend 2 item slots on it no matter what u do. 1900 gold to get it is very cheap. and both cdr boots and kindlegem are amazing items anyway so its not like you're wastign those slots on cdr alone

if u think 1900 gold and 2 slots is not worth having 40% cdr, than what is 40% cdr really worth to u? cdr is the number 1 most important thing for most mages. if u wont give up 1900 gold to get it, i dont know what to tell you.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkhill View Post
as i stated in my post, if u value CDR so highly, giving up 1900 gold for it is nothing. u will never get all your cdr in 1 item anyway so you're going to spend 2 item slots on it no matter what u do. 1900 gold to get it is very cheap. and both cdr boots and kindlegem are amazing items anyway so its not like you're wastign those slots on cdr alone

if u think 1900 gold and 2 slots is not worth having 40% cdr, than what is 40% cdr really worth to u? cdr is the number 1 most important thing for most mages. if u wont give up 1900 gold to get it, i dont know what to tell you.
Well I didn't mean just the 1900g, I'm talking about the runes(mr/lvl or ap/lvl), itemslots and oppertunity cost(unable to purchase earlygame flatpen, sorcshoes) of not being able to start/rush other items as well. Cdr in general is pretty difficult to itemize for just because there are so few options and many of those options are tied to more obscure or unwanted stats. To cost effectively hit 40%cdr early while also keeping pace in damage and standard itemization goals(counter building the enemy) is actually quite a challenge. IMO Riot just needs more items in general, whether it be cdr, lifesteal, vamp, negatron upgrades, etc. All of these are pretty much lacking compared to flat AD, flat AP, HP, armor.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kedali

Senior Member

02-19-2012

The problem with CDR on Dominion is that AP carries are balanced around having the blue buff and blue pot available, which effectively removes the need to itemize for CDR. But without those, you're going to have to make sacrifices to get it, lowering your overall power. It's not a huge deal since there are a couple nice CDR items that will get you most of the way there, but it is noticeable.