How many games do you expect to play before you reach your true Elo?

< 10 Games 180 1.63%
11-40 Games 819 7.42%
41-80 Games 1,162 10.53%
81-120 Games 1,736 15.73%
121-160 Games 664 6.02%
161-200 Games 928 8.41%
200-399 Games 1,701 15.42%
400-599 Games 1,082 9.81%
600-799 Games 456 4.13%
800-999 Games 170 1.54%
1000+ Games 2,136 19.36%
Voters: 11034. You may not vote on this poll

Help Riot improve matchmaking! Looking for examples of bad matchmaking

First Riot Post
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xthn

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Junior Member

02-16-2012

1) What is your Summoner name? TryHarderNubz

2) What was the game mode? (Normal, Normal Draft, Ranked) Normal Draft

3) What was the map? (Summonerís Rift, Dominion, Twisted Treeline) SR

4) Were you queuing with a friend?
a. If yes, how many friends? (1, 2, 3, 4?) 1
b. If yes, and ranked, what were you and your friendsí Elo(s)?
c. If yes, and normal mode or normal draft, what was the Level and win/loss of you and your friends? 30 each, around 300/270ish.

5) If you are below Level 30, do you have a Level 30 account?

6) Any specific reason(s) you felt the game was unbalanced? We had a Master Yi on our team and it was his FIRST GAME, I was jungling Trundle and I couldn't honestly believe him, but his match history proved such. It was 100% an all 30's game except for him, and I was amazed.

7) A screenshot of the end-game score: None.


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Golux

Adjudicator

02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I am concerned with streaks as well. I know losing streaks are demoralizing, and often players will take sustained breaks from League of Legends due to them.
Have you analyzed the data to see if LoL games really are streaky (in the sense of a player having longer runs of wins or losses than a series of coin flips would have)? It's well known that people tend to see streaks whether or not they exist (just something about human nature), see for example the classic paper by David Levine "Do Baseball Players Have Hot Streaks?" (it's on the web for those who are interested).

Is LoL actually streaky?

Of course, regardless of whether it is or isn't streaky in the technical sense, you might want to do something to "de-streakify" it, because you are quite right it is discouraging. I'm just curious as to whether LoL is actually streaky or not.


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Golux

Adjudicator

02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeTrap View Post
Dearingest darlingest Lyte,

I have a question about Elo adjusts.

I know that MM expands the breadth of the search as time goes on. So sometimes, you might have Team A with average 1250 Elo against Team B with average 1350 Elo, or whatever.

Do Elo change calculations adjust for this? If A wins, do they get extra Elo? If A loses, do they lose less Elo than usual?
Of course, Lyte will have the official reply.

However, what you describe (more Elo points gained for you if you beat a better team, more lost if you lose to a worse team) is a core part of Elo. I would be shocked if Riot described their system as "based on Elo" if this wasn't part of it.

Btw, if anyone wants to know more about the Elo system (beyond, say, what the Wikipedia article has, which is a fine place to start) I highly recommend Arpad Elo's classic "The Rating of Chessplayers Past and Present". (Lyte, if by any chance you haven't read it yet, you really should!)


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calicfer

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I am interested in the idea of possibly presenting people with messages about their current match-up. I would not want to present people exact expected win rates based off Elos in the Loading Screen; however, there is potential for presenting messages such as, "You are Team Blue, the underdogs in this match!" or "You are Team Blue, the favored Champions in this match!"

(woot first time being quoted by a red)

The reason why I am hesitant to post exact expected win%s is because it is easy to misconstrue the meaning. If a matchmaker suggests that you have a 85% chance to win but your team loses, that does not mean the matchmaker necessarily failed. Afterall, if we created that specific match-up many many times, you would in fact be expected to lose 15% of those games. It is hard to interpret the 'success' or failure of a matchmaker based off 1 data point.
Yeah, I see where losing a game where you have an 85% success rate would be frustrating. (be common and cause a lot of forum qq.)

But if you got stomped in that game (which would happen more often). You know it was because there wasn't a good set of people to match you with.

Besides typically you can tell that you should have won and just messed up.

Finally most games are matched between 40% and 60% win chance, unless you que at unusual times.

TLR
players have a sense when they are unlucky and lost a game they should have won
Also I like the "You are Team Blue, the underdogs in this match!" message a lot. It is much friendlier, easier to understand and fun.

Maybe Have a message when matchmaking went 1 minute over and gives you that 90% loss game. Make it say "Prepare to be rofled" or "You are Team Blue, prepare to fight for your life"

TLR
I love your implementation.


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Razy4evar

Member

02-16-2012

Finally, ive been waiting for this thread.


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calicfer

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golux View Post
Of course, Lyte will have the official reply.

However, what you describe (more Elo points gained for you if you beat a better team, more lost if you lose to a worse team) is a core part of Elo. I would be shocked if Riot described their system as "based on Elo" if this wasn't part of it.

Btw, if anyone wants to know more about the Elo system (beyond, say, what the Wikipedia article has, which is a fine place to start) I highly recommend Arpad Elo's classic "The Rating of Chessplayers Past and Present". (Lyte, if by any chance you haven't read it yet, you really should!)
-calicfer
^reminding myself to read this.


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

02-16-2012

the idea of giving people a short message about what matchmaking thinks the favored team is would certainly be interesting! O:

ironically though it could give the lower rated team a psychological advantage because i found that if i am nervous about my opponents (for example when they are running a double jungle comp and we don't have a jungler) i play with alot more focus and make an extra effort to be coordinated with my team

btw i have never lost to double jungle so either half of these comps are two trolls who couldn't agree on who gets to be the jungler or i simply play much better when i am intimidated by the enemy team comp


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KaiserSosev

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Senior Member

02-16-2012

I play normal. And a RAGE hard wen I see that my team mates are 100 to 400 wins.


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The Roman Empire

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Matchmaking is clearly fine, no need for improvements!

EDITED BY LYTE :: Saved the screenshot, thanks!


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The Roman Empire

Senior Member

02-16-2012

Also, it needs a league system (ya know, like every other competitive game with ladders). So that when you lose a game, you don't immediately start playing with worse players until the ladders update.

Even a game like starcraft has this where a loss is typically 100% you. In a game like LoL where a loss is rarely 100% you, there's no excuse not to have this.