How many games do you expect to play before you reach your true Elo?

< 10 Games 180 1.63%
11-40 Games 819 7.42%
41-80 Games 1,162 10.52%
81-120 Games 1,737 15.73%
121-160 Games 664 6.01%
161-200 Games 929 8.41%
200-399 Games 1,703 15.42%
400-599 Games 1,085 9.82%
600-799 Games 456 4.13%
800-999 Games 170 1.54%
1000+ Games 2,139 19.37%
Voters: 11044. You may not vote on this poll

Help Riot improve matchmaking! Looking for examples of bad matchmaking

First Riot Post
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Chry

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Senior Member

02-27-2012

Wanted to pull this from my other thread, Lyte --


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoD Chry View Post
THIS - Is exactly the point. I'm almost done with this game just because I can't get into the idea of having to keep rolling the dice every time I queue. I've played on my friends account which is 1700 and did really well (Played over 50 games on it and was about 52% - Playing every role) and there was regularly people in that ELO that were worse than I and completely ignorant of game goals.

On MY account I'm currently around 1050 and can't get up. I've dove all the way to 750 just from trolls, up to 1350, and back to 850.

I win my lane (early game) 95% of the time, have the highest cs in the game early and usually late, point out objectives/timings, ward, position myself well in team fights and STILL lose and here's why:

30% of my games the following happens: Gross team comp, no support, feeder, or afk. Let's just say 30% of my games I have no chance of hard carrying. I went 24/2 Vayne the other day and still lost - This is an example of one of those games.

SO - 30% of my games I automatically lose because of matchmaking. That leaves me 60% that I can have a good game on. If I play WELL and win 75% of those games that leaves me winning 45% of my games... Still a negative ratio when I'm winning / carrying 75% of the time.

Silly system.


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Chry

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Senior Member

02-27-2012

Also - If you're listening... You should have different levels of rank... Or move them. Make bronze 800, silver 1000, gold 1200, plat 1500, diamond 1800, master 2000, grandmaster 2200

I know I stole those names from SC2 - But just giving you the idea. It's silly to have it be "1250" or nothing.

edit: and use those brackets for matchmaking whenever possible. If you can't match a bunch of players from on group for a game you put in 1 player from a higher or lower elo group depending on their trending elo (are they headed up? put them in the higher bracket game -- moving down, inverse, etc)

edit 2: not sure if it's been mentioned but you SHOULD be tracking trending ELO. I don't want to play with someone who's lost 5 in a row


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Haksause

Senior Member

02-27-2012

Facing 1900 players in normal 5v5, 5 people, all of us around 100 - 150 wins above losses


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Para

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Senior Member

02-27-2012

The thing that drives me nuts about matchmaking is that... I know what I am doing but my teammates don't and it makes my life a little frustrating. Yes I was a noob once but I am still stuck in the lower elo range and it is making it hard for me to carry myself out.


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Frozty Reap

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Senior Member

02-27-2012

Matchmaking is bs. I play with my friend, him 20 and me 22. We get enemy team with nearly all level 30 with 200+ wins and our team with noobs that are level 15-25. Wtf riot? Once I solo queued and got all level 30s with me being level 20 and getting called a feeder because they were too good...


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Suddenflame12

Senior Member

02-27-2012

I dont know if this will be seen in this gaint amounts of replies but i will try. i have been noticing lately with my all my games lately that it is has been face-roll or be face-rolled scenario where either the game goes in favour or it just plain is against it in drastic measures. I am really going to start taking screen pics of this and was thinking of finding way to record the games cause i am not kidding when i say its just facerolling central now. I am over 400 wins in normal (more like 450ish) with 20 wins over loses and sustaining that number. I play mostly Garen, Vlad, Trist, and Taric now and i am skilled in all them but it seems like the game ends up by 15min mark on side of the fence or another not due to my plays at all either.

I can hold my lane or win it but the tides change based on the other lanes i have noticed drastically. I wish had the replay but and screenshots but had a game where i went 7/5/11 as Garen against Singed top where i just destroyed him badly but we lost at 18mins with our nexus being destroyed for my team was just destroyed by their team. Maybe 1 in 40 games it ends in a close game with one mistake being all it takes but most games its not even like that for its 15/2 in 10mins or 2/15 depending on who is face-rolling. I am really going to start taking screen shots for i find this wierd.


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AEmilianus

Junior Member

02-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Str1k3r View Post
Well, even though your ideas seem to have a good purpose, its really not as simple as it sounds. In a few words, you cant give that much "power" to the players without flawing the system even further. The reason behind this is that if we look at the facts (and there are plenty of them) most of the LoL community is composed of players that do tend to leave games/ stop trying/ adopt negative attitudes/ etc. This would imply that you are trying to isolate those types of players which in fact are the majority. This will cause even greater issues with the matchmaking system as queue times would be a LOT higher because leaders would just keep on kicking "the majority" of the players, and most games wouldn't even proceed normally as everyone would just kick vote players in game (again, we are talking about the majority of players). You cant just exclude players from the system, you have to improve the system so that it makes it fair for everyone, not just the minority. As ideal as your ideas may sound, they are just not feasible.
Dear sir thank you for taking the time to read my post.
I see your reasoning. But. As I understand the only downside of my thought is that: longer ques.

As from me I would rather wait 5 - 10 - 15 minute for a GOOD game than spending 20 - 30 - 40 min from a f***ed game that is hopeles from start since 1 ppl is sitting at the base or doing nothing.

As about giving power...well, a good system, a good team needs a LEADER. Which is already present, since the team leader can only ban...if he banns silly things, that is effects the whole match...so a little more or less power...who cares? I want to play a decent game and I am wiling to follow any leader who makes it possible.

If this kicking/banning affects the MAJORITY, than you implying the majority is leaver? If so, than kick them all, purge this game and let fair playing decent people remain. You can say it is not economical for Riot ( don't know if you are part of them...nor do I care), but in a long run healthy for the community. Besides I personally have friends who ended up playing this game or even went to HoN, because the issues I mentioned. Simply no fun at all to play with leavers and idiots again and again. Not in ranked at least. I personally on the verge of abandoning this game since of this.

Any better Ideas...I am listening.


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kidco

Senior Member

02-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfox76 View Post
Lyte, I must question people's knowledge of what a "true ELO" is though with regards to the poll. I myself am about a 1600 player or so, I know this through duo que's and asking what people's ranked position is, but I currently am in the 1100's (down from almost 1400 and was climbing) because of a rash of leavers, people duo queing with terrible friends, and trolls.

This means that even though I have taken on and beaten 1600 + players, that I cannot judge where I am supposed to be with any shadow of accuracy simply because I cannot get to 1600 without being drug down for reasons that are beyond my control.

Experience is the only way to see where an individual belongs, but most people don't get to see it because of bad team comps. It is very rare that an individual person can carry the other four if something goes terribly wrong, meaning that if someone is in my case and is stuck super low, it's almost impossible to carry, especially when others are down there too who do not belong. I appears to me like It's a matter of luck with who has the most people who do not belong.

I suppose my question is, do you think that ELO should account for an individuals contribution to the whole team and is measured as such (I.E. being rewarded as a carry for having x creep score by 10 minutes or Y kills + X creep score - deaths / the amount of time the game took), or that it should stay the way it is and only measure an individuals skill according to how well the team did as a whole?

I am a firm believer that though this is a team game, individual contribution should take part in the elo score of that individual. ( Example: Went 13-6-7 on kog, carrying the team hard, and lost 18 elo for my stomping. Held the enemy vayne down to 60 creeps by 20 min, yet we all lost ELO because of one person.)

don't get me wrong, I'm ok with losing ELO for a loss where i did poorly, that seems fair. I'm not ok with losing ELO every game because clutch positions like jungle and mid "Feed" the enemy team leading to devastation. Myself and others like me can only ping and type so much in a kind fashion trying to alert someone of an impending gank.

Would love to hear your thoughts.
It's true that team comps often have a luck factor but you can turn the luck in your favor. My last game I basically assembled all 5 members and told them what hero to be since I know they are 60% win or above with those champs and since everyone on the team was 60% or above with the champs they were playing I knew we had a good chance of winning the game.

You need to take charge and be the leader of your team and organize the team comp if no one else will. I'm sure if you do this consistently you will raise in elo and turn the luck to your favor. There are too many one trick ponies out there who just suck with every hero but one but you can turn this in your favor.

I'm 1480 elo now and I'm having an easier time winning games than when I was 1200 mostly cuz my team is better at their hero most of the time and mostly cuz I can organize our team at least for the most part to turn the luck in my favor.

People want to win but often are stuck filling a position they are not good at and that results in feeding and poor play often. Everytime I asked someone to be a specific champ they did it cuz the want to win and are good with the heros. experiment this with me and see how it turns out. I'm sure you will start winning more games.


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GoldenStrategist

Junior Member

02-27-2012

Very interesting topic. i wasn't planning on thinking about it but i was hoping it would get fixed. I am currently floating 1250 - 1450 Elo. but couldn't help but think about it cause of the profession I'm going in.

I don't know if anyone else suggested this. i haven't read everything. What about an individual elo gain and loss and a team elo gain and loss that contributes to your main elo.

Lets say you win a game. You carried or did really well you get 13 elo for winning but you get say a max of 8 elo also for carrying or doing well. Helping you shoot out of that bracket if you don't belong there.

Now lets say if you lose cause of your team or you didn't communicate well etc..., but you still did well. you still lose the 13 for losing the game but for doing well you gain say 5 points. you won't drastically drop lower but stay in the bracket. till you can win a game and do well not amazing just not terrible. prove your skill level exp etc is better then whats at that elo.

If you lose and do terribly, have few assists, feeding all over. you lose max of 8 points for the feeding and stuff and 13 elo for losing the game. You drop fast out that elo if you don't need to be there. You float in a bracket alot longer and is easier to get where you suppose to be being worse elo or better elo.


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Devare

Senior Member

02-27-2012

Just sent an email to mathcmaking@riotgames.com. of my 9-0-6 trundle game terror


Also this video explains a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqummot83IE

^ Thanks to The Rain Man for that.