Ahri - Nerfed again

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Yaladilae

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by Aerodynamic View Post
I just can't stop reading your opening sentences. 250 straight games and you don't think she is OP? I'm kinda shocked at that statement.
dude, they are not straight wins.....

So i play a champion 1000 games, win 10% of my game, you going to call that OP???


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Aerodynamic

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02-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaladilae View Post
dude, they are not straight wins.....

So i play a champion 1000 games, win 10% of my game, you going to call that OP???
You would play a champion with a 10% win ratio? Come on, let's be serious now. Also no where in my comment did I say that I think she's OP. I think it's ludacris that you don't think she's OP. Also looking at your paragraph again, you are now saying that you will not play her because she is getting nerfed. Her kit isn't being changed, just the numbers, and now all of a sudden you won't play her. Why? Because it will be harder to win. Yeah...


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Yaladilae

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by Aerodynamic View Post
You would play a champion with a 10% win ratio? Come on, let's be serious now. Also no where in my comment did I say that I think she's OP. I think it's ludacris that you don't think she's OP. Also looking at your paragraph again, you are now saying that you will not play her because she is getting nerfed. Her kit isn't being changed, just the numbers, and now all of a sudden you won't play her. Why? Because it will be harder to win. Yeah...
No... I won't play her because of her nerf is not needed (at least not by that scale), and its extremely unfair when champs like Kassadin and Yorick (top ban 90% of the time) does not get looked at, whilst Ahri was in a fairly OK place. That is the protest part.

But I also do not want to play her because its simply not as fun anymore... (see below)

Yes, i love to win, but i do not mind loosing if the game was close and i felt i played well, this makes the game fun.
But with the nerfs to the numbers, its hard to do well anymore (at least until i hit 16), and the game is boring if you cannot do well with a champ, not because of your skill, but because of the champ itself...

I am sorry you cannot understand this concept that the game is not ALWAYS about winning (esp. there is no ranked). I play a champ because I want to enjoy the process of playing it, have some great games where i feel i contributed well to the team, win or loose...

And I am sorry, perhaps your use of the phrase "OP" in your previous comment made me think that you implied that i should believe Ahri is OP


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AbsolutePK

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by Aerodynamic View Post
You would play a champion with a 10% win ratio? Come on, let's be serious now. Also no where in my comment did I say that I think she's OP. I think it's ludacris that you don't think she's OP. Also looking at your paragraph again, you are now saying that you will not play her because she is getting nerfed. Her kit isn't being changed, just the numbers, and now all of a sudden you won't play her. Why? Because it will be harder to win. Yeah...
You mean it's not normal to play a champion 300 games? I played Karthus for 100 games before Dominion came out. Did I think he was OP? No. He's just the champion I enjoyed playing as AP mid.

I see you have 1334 games done in Classic, don't you have a Main champion that you've played the majority of your games with?


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BigDaddyRelish

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by Yaladilae View Post
No... I won't play her because of her nerf is not needed (at least not by that scale), and its extremely unfair when champs like Kassadin and Yorick (top ban 90% of the time) does not get looked at, whilst Ahri was in a fairly OK place. That is the protest part.

But I also do not want to play her because its simply not as fun anymore... (see below)

Yes, i love to win, but i do not mind loosing if the game was close and i felt i played well, this makes the game fun.
But with the nerfs to the numbers, its hard to do well anymore (at least until i hit 16), and the game is boring if you cannot do well with a champ, not because of your skill, but because of the champ itself...

I am sorry you cannot understand this concept that the game is not ALWAYS about winning (esp. there is no ranked). I play a champ because I want to enjoy the process of playing it, have some great games where i feel i contributed well to the team, win or loose...

And I am sorry, perhaps your use of the phrase "OP" in your previous comment made me think that you wanted me to think Ahri is OP...
To be honest I think you are hugely underestimating Ahri's strength. And if you can't do well with Ahri with a nerf like that then I question how good you were at Ahri to begin with. I have played with several today and they have all still performed very well, it's just now you have to think about when you actually use your ult because now you won't have it 9/10x times you **** up unless you invest in cdr.


She wasn't THAT op, but she did need this kind of nerf. She just has so much going for her. Great damage, amazing utility/mobility.... that's a pretty awesome package. She is not anywhere near as bad as you are making her out to be, and she is still a strong pick on Dominion and SR alike.


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Aerodynamic

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02-15-2012

She is the same champion, she is still fun.... You just can't get over the nerf.


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Yaladilae

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by BigDaddyRelish View Post
To be honest I think you are hugely underestimating Ahri's strength. And if you can't do well with Ahri with a nerf like that then I question how good you were at Ahri to begin with.
Ahri is very ult dependant champion, i am sure no one can argue against that. (unless you go AD)
Take away her ult, you might as well play someone else.. .
Nerf her ult, you make her much weaker...

Big nerf to her ult after a small nerf to her ult is what happened

Yes, Q still has great pushing power and E still provides a good cc...
But I also question you, does people not dodge your skillshot? Because sometimes, people do dodge my E and get 1 hit from Q (instead of 2). The damage is not that great... and you will properly get killed (esp. against a real assassin)...

Also her MS is 2nd lowest AP in the game... It's understandable when she always has her ult up (release stage)... but frankly, she does not... not anymore

You all mentioned CDR, but do you all realised that, if you build early CDR, your mana will drain so fast? And if you build extra mana, you slow down your damage output.
Remember when she first came out, everyone build RoA?

And if you build late game CDR, to be frank, late game is not much problem anymore with the nerfs. It's just her early game nerf that is the main problem specfic to the nerf...

The last problem is RIOT does not care, they are prepare to nerf her again... in the wrong direction... again...


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BigDaddyRelish

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02-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaladilae View Post
Ahri is very ult dependant champion, i am sure no one can argue against that. (unless you go AD)
Take away her ult, you might as well play someone else.. .
Nerf her ult, you make her much weaker...

Big nerf to her ult after a small nerf to her ult is what happened

Yes, Q still has great pushing power and E still provides a good cc...
But I also question you, does people not dodge your skillshot? Because sometimes, people do dodge my E and get 1 hit from Q (instead of 2). The damage is not that great... and you will properly get killed (esp. against a real assassin)...

Also her MS is 2nd lowest AP in the game... It's understandable when she always has her ult up (release stage)... but frankly, she does not... not anymore

You all mentioned CDR, but do you all realised that, if you build early CDR, your mana will drain so fast? And if you build extra mana, you slow down your damage output.
Remember when she first came out, everyone build RoA?

And if you build late game CDR, to be frank, late game is not much problem anymore with the nerfs. It's just her early game nerf that is the main problem specfic to the nerf...

The last problem is RIOT does not care, they are prepare to nerf her again... in the wrong direction... again...
I find that to be untrue, while her ultimate is definitely valuable she can still do some dirty without it. She has absurd range on her skills, not to mention Rylais procs the full slow on all hits of Fox Fire. While if she is out of position she will die nearly instantly without her ult up, it's not like her ult is everything about her, she still is a poke monster, and Charm is arguably the best cc in the game.


If people read you so hard as to be able to dodge your skillshots then you just got straight up outplayed, and they should be rewarded for that. Charm is not very hard to land as the projectile speed is fairly fast, and if you miss your Q then Ahri is really not a champion you should be playing. And her damage is fine, it's not OMGWTF I GOT KILLED IN ONE ROTATION but her damage is not anything to scoff at at all, especially for it's range and cd's.

It's not like her ultimate is NEVER up now, she does have low ms but yet she remains so hard to kill... she is a kite monster to this day even with her low ms. She needs a weakness, if you do manage to catch up to her then she SHOULD die, that's what I thought the design of her character was supposed to be for. If you have that kind of range, that kind of cc, that kind of spellvamp, and that kind of ult, it can take a lot of effort to keep up with her unless you are playing a hard anti-caster like LeBlanc or Kassadin (and that's like the entire point of those champs). But with her ult being on such a low cd it was incredibly hard to be able to approach her in that way. Now that it's been nerfed, it's actually reasonable and she won't just /laugh as she ults away from you every time she gets caught. But a good Ahri will still be a pain in the ass to kill, and I've seen it first hand through my games today.

I'm not saying Ahri doesn't need her ult, it's definitely great and adds a lot to her character. But you could use it so liberally that there was no real consequence if you wasted it since it was back up so fast, and when she has it she is impossible to kill unless you have a hard anti-caster on your team, or she is cc chained.


Not many Ahri's invest in cdr, and I'm not saying that it's core to her build now. But if the nerf is such a big deal to you that you literally cannot play Ahri without losing maybe get some cdr runes or something. And maybe I'm just crazy but I have never had mana issues with Ahri in Dominion. Ever. All I build that is related to mana is Prospector's Ring, and I don't even take mana regen runes. My build is Prospector's Ring -> Sorc Treads -> Hextech Revolver -> Rylais -> Will of the Ancients -> Deathcap and I don't have any issues with mana unless I'm spamming Q like a mother ****er at bot lane, and even then all you need is a catalyst especially since she will still be able to outpressure most bots without investing in a lot of early mana.

Now that I think of it the only champ I ever have mana issues with on Dom is Orianna... but even then it's manageable.


I don't know if Riot is going to nerf her again, but I think this nerf hit her where she needed to be hit. I love me some Ahri, but she was incredibly difficult to handle even if the person isn't good at her. She needs a weakness SOMEwhere, and now there are actually openings where Ahri can be caught and actually dealt with.


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Aerodynamic

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by AbsolutePK View Post
You mean it's not normal to play a champion 300 games? I played Karthus for 100 games before Dominion came out. Did I think he was OP? No. He's just the champion I enjoyed playing as AP mid.

I see you have 1334 games done in Classic, don't you have a Main champion that you've played the majority of your games with?
I don't understand, what does it matter? If I mained a champ for that many games I would consider them OP. I wouldn't tell people about it on the forums, but deep down, I would know, and I would play them after the nerf. Great thing about champion you play too much is that they are still good even after a hard nerf. I still play nidalee and alistar, and they got nerfed what harder than ahri. If you really want to look at a sad duo, look at twich and eve.


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Yaladilae

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02-15-2012

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Originally Posted by BigDaddyRelish View Post
I find that to be untrue, while her ultimate is definitely valuable she can still do some dirty without it. She has absurd range on her skills, not to mention Rylais procs the full slow on all hits of Fox Fire. While if she is out of position she will die nearly instantly without her ult up, it's not like her ult is everything about her, she still is a poke monster, and Charm is arguably the best cc in the game.
I am tempted to say i should shoot myself, life at 150ping

But anyway... I still want to focus on the problem of early game, because like i mentioned , she is fine late game, even with this new set of nerfs

I land about 70% of my skillshot. The problem with E and W is, if you level E first, you lack damage from W. If you level W first, 1 sec charm do not do much.... (And yea, i level Q first for lane pushing)

Her early game damage is never assassin like, compare to someone like Fizz who can troll pole into you, and take most of your life with urichin strike.
Her mobility is early game has 20sec added to her, and she does have mana issue (esp. bot lane, like you said)

Maybe i played her because i love being able to dash in and out of the fight, making impact. Now I just have to stay behind others as a poker unless my ult is up...
Should I approach her in a different angle now? Perhaps even try AD? I don't know... But she definitely is not assassin like anymore (until late game)...

To be fair, I would rather see her reuse time change to 1.25 sec (from 0.75), which will provide her enough weakness time, then to have her ult +20sec...