Beserker Greaves

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Raepherion

Senior Member

07-24-2010

I started playing the game a week or so ago and am having fun. I feel like a have a pretty good handle on the basic game mechanics and strategies, and now I want to focus on becoming a smarter player.

I just starting browsing the forums to look for tips and strategies, etc., and I noticed several people dissing on Beserker Greaves as a noob item to get.

I was wondering why this is? At first glance they seem to be a nice item to get for someone who wants to focus on attack speed and has some range (i.e. Ashe in my case). What is the main argument against Beserker Greaves, and what is the preferred alternative and why?

Thanks in advance.


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Zenbear

Senior Member

07-24-2010

I was thiking the same thing. I've even seen some guides in leaguecraft that use them and they had high ratings.


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xpsychedelico

Senior Member

07-24-2010

In most situations, Berserker's Greeves are not the item of choice unless you are building an AS champion, and even so, situational boots tend to be the best. Ashe benefits more from crit chance and damage than AS, because the longer she takes to take a shot, the higher her % chance of criting. Someone like TF would benefit from AS because of Stacked Deck, and many people build him completely AS.

The reason why Berserkers Greeves are hated on is because AS is easily obtainable in so many other items (or just buy a recurve bow that gives more AS anyway), while Dodge Boots and Mercury Treads give you some defensive stats that are not as easily obtainable in a standard build. Dodge boots give Armor and some Dodge, which is very good against a physical heavy team. Mercury Treads offer magic resist and a 35% reduction time on most disables, which is not only huge, but also unobtainable with any other item.


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kepowz

Junior Member

07-24-2010

Exactly what xpsychedelico said.

Berserker's Greaves are pointless, because you can get AS on so many other cheap items easily. You cannot get the effect on Mercury's Treads from any other item. And Ninja Tabis are great too.


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R66Y

Senior Member

07-24-2010

If you aren't getting merc. treads in 90% of your games, you are failing. Almost all burst damage is magical, and it is the only CC reduction in the game.


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Terchio

Senior Member

07-24-2010

R66Y and similar folk are the reason. They think mercs go with everything, though the summoner spell Cleanse exists, as well as the Quicksilver Sash and the Banshee's Veil, plus numerous champion spells, and yet CC reduction doesn't exist. As though a quarter difference will mean that much to all champions. However, they do have a slight point as well. If you get stunned for 2 seconds, what good is that 25% increased attack speed doing you during that time? In that case you'd want mercs for that extra half second of attack. And running away, should it be necessary. However, they are not as useful as they're made out to be, especially with recent nerfs.

Another problem is that they don't have a 'niche' group counting on them. Sorc shoes have burst damage casters, Boots of Tabi have Jax and others who mass dodge, and if you need some speed, you are covered with boots of swiftness or boots of mobility. However, DPS characters could use pretty much all of these just as effectively as Berzerker Boots, with the exception of Sorc Boots.


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R66Y

Senior Member

07-24-2010

Not every character wants cleanse, and it is not always off CD. Merc treads are always"up"
Banshee's veil is easily popped by any decent player before CC
Quicksilver sash is a lot more cost for a poor mans cleanse

You're backwards, we aren't the reason zerkers are bad. Mercs are just so much better than any other option except in rare builds or team compositions. You can get AS from a myriad of places, and on many items that have other stats that champs looking for AS would also like. It is a cheap and easily obtainable stat. MR is not as easy to find and is critical for survival in most games, and the CC reduction is probably one of the best investments in the game given the proclivity of many teams for stacking CC.


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Eggtart Chow

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Senior Member

07-24-2010

Too bad the extra 25% AS won't help near as much when you're taking the full 3 second stun in a team fight from Ashe. R66Y said 90% of the time for a reason. There are the rare games where there is extremely little CC and magic damage, but I can always guarantee Merc Treads will help you more in the long run. Let me give you a example.

A basic Tristana build will go something like Last Whisper, Inf Edge, boots, and Frozen Mallet. You COULD get Berserker's Greaves for the extra 25% attack speed, but you have no MR. Merc Treads will not only reduce stuns, but will help cushion burst damage so you can build damage instead of defense. Tristana has built in attack speed through Rapid Fire, so I'll give you another example

At 18 with a Last Whisper and Inf Edge, Ashe has 1.525 attack speed and does 188 damage per hit, this is 372.705 DPS. Let's add Berserker's Greaves. You now have 1.69 attack speed, which is .165 more. This is .165 more attacks in a second, with 188 per hit, thats roughly 31.02 more damage per second. You now do 413.001 DPS. Berserker's Greaves give you such a minuscule increase to DPS that it's better to get more survivability, Merc Treads, in any situation.


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Terchio

Senior Member

07-24-2010

So, all of this given though heroes such as Morgana, Sivir, Mundo, Olaf, Gangplank, Garen, and surely others exist, and yet there is no defense against CC? Plus, many CC are good against only one target. What if you aren't that target? Not that it matters. You'd drop half a second in a 2 second stun. At this point, I'd probably rather the dodge on Tabi. Though treads are always 'on', it is also always off, in that the CC will not fail, just last a tiny bit shorter. channels are just as ruined, so those who have channels are going to need banshee's veil anyway. There goes Malhazar, Fiddles, Katarina, Janna, and possibly Karthus, though he tends to do his away from confrontation, and possibly among others. It's not drawn out black and white, and there's already 11/55 champions up, 80% only remaining, none of which would want to use cleanse because they have the defenses they need or need Banshee's Veil? Hardly 90% already. Then I can go on to argue about how effective that 1/4 reduction really is, especially when comparing the cost of those treads to the others, but heaven knows I'd be wasting my breath.


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Eggtart Chow

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Senior Member

07-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terchio View Post
So, all of this given though heroes such as Morgana, Sivir, Mundo, Olaf, Gangplank, Garen, and surely others exist, and yet there is no defense against CC? Plus, many CC are good against only one target. What if you aren't that target? Not that it matters. You'd drop half a second in a 2 second stun. At this point, I'd probably rather the dodge on Tabi. Though treads are always 'on', it is also always off, in that the CC will not fail, just last a tiny bit shorter. channels are just as ruined, so those who have channels are going to need banshee's veil anyway. There goes Malhazar, Fiddles, Katarina, Janna, and possibly Karthus, though he tends to do his away from confrontation, and possibly among others. It's not drawn out black and white, and there's already 11/55 champions up, 80% only remaining, none of which would want to use cleanse because they have the defenses they need or need Banshee's Veil? Hardly 90% already. Then I can go on to argue about how effective that 1/4 reduction really is, especially when comparing the cost of those treads to the others, but heaven knows I'd be wasting my breath.
First off you aren't even arguing for Berserker's Greaves anymore, you're trying to make Merc Treads sound useless. Secondly, you don't get them just for the stun protection, you get them for the MR, too. Since you made a cute little list of some of the champs and gave a fake percentage, I'll do the same. Here is a list of champs that turn a game into a Merc Treads game:

Annie, Alistar, Ashe, Amumu, Anivia, Cho'Gath, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Heimerdinger, Janna, Jax, Kassadin, AP Kennen, AP Kog'maw, Malzahar, Morgana, Malphite, Nasus, Nidalee, Nunu, Pantheon, Rammus, Ryze, Shen, Singed, Sion, Taric, Twisted Fate, Udyr, Veigar, Zilean

That's 31 out of the 55 champs that turn a game into a Merc Treads game, 56% of the champs. Since there are 5 champs per team, you are 5 times as likely to run into a champ in a normal game. Then we have to take the viability of the champs into stake, draft mode rules, etc. I'm not doing the equation for that percentage, but it is high. How often do you play against a team without a single one of those champs? Not very often, my friend. Champs with CC are very strong picks, and almost all of the viable tanks were listed.

Now lets talk about your expert math on stun reduction. You say 35% from 2 seconds only takes off a half second of a stun, it actually takes off .7 seconds of a stun. .2 isn't that big of a deal though, right? Your precious berserker greaves only add .2 attack speed, my friend. A team can do a lot in .7 seconds that can really shaft you. Let's say you don't grab Merc Treads and you become Ashe's main target. That's a 3 second stun you're potentially looking at every 60 seconds. With Merc Treads, that stun is now 1.95 seconds. A whole second was shaved off, thanks Mer Treads. Let's say Nasus decides to Wither you every team fight, no Merc Treads is 5 seconds of slow an attack speed loss. With Merc Treads that 5 seconds turns into 3.25. A whole 1.75, almost 2 seconds knocked off.

Do you understand why your argument is invalid now?


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