Soraka nerfed on SR buffed on Dominion?

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Dessim8

Senior Member

02-11-2012

If my enemy has a bit of less than avoidable poke, the extra health from an extra rank or two can help mitigate the damage. You're not suggesting I ignore heal altogether are you? That'd ruin lane sustain.

Either way, I meant later on. Later on, I'm not sure if a -30 MR or so phys attacker will like destroying themselves. Not so useful against AD casters, but direct auto attackers will feel quite the sting, especially if Exhaust is up. I've done it before!

Frozen Heart, a strong heal, and Thornmail will give a physical heavy team lots of troble. 24% Lifesteal still struggles against +324 Armor from these items and spell even with extra ArPen.


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Aparkhurst

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Senior Member

02-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessim8 View Post
How can a champ who raises her armor by 125 and can make thornmail that much stronger through MR shred be countered by AD? I tend to laugh at Auto attackers!
Thornmail is a devastating item to get on Soraka, but she does not start the game with one, and the uptime on her armor buff from w is 20% of the time or so.

As far as sustaining health as Soraka, I tend to start the game with spell vamp.


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DoctorEvolution

Senior Member

02-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
Rush her, get silenced..? Take 3 stacks of starcall.. and begin tanking creeps because yours are dead?

Soraka is already viable bot and one does not simply rush Soraka when he has no starcall debuffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hozartis View Post
Add to this that each time you do this little harass trick, she's pushing towards your tower with live minions. She can even push while chasing you away. Don't sleep on Soraka.
With merc treads her max silence is 1.875 seconds. The cast for starfall is 2.5 seconds, 1.5 seconds with max cdr. If you engage right after she starfalls, if she silences you straight away, you'll get hit by 1-3 starfalls max depending on how coordinated you are vs how coordinated she is. With the added MR from Merc treads, this will absorb most of the MR shred that you would have taken.

I tend to win against Soraka as most casters, considering it usually takes 1-2 seconds to blow your full combo on he as most casters.

As Ryze, I harass with Q, which I usually hit outside her starfall range. If I go in for the full, Q,E,W,Q combo that takes about a second to cast. Then get out, i'll usually only be hit by 1 or 2 starfalls + silence.

If silenced it will take me 3 seconds to blow my combo, she will get off 2 star falls, and chase with an extra third usually, though I will usually get an extra Q in if she chases.

Lastly most casters if targeting minions at maximum range will be outside of her range and able to counter push. If she is pushing with starfall, this merely allows for more opportunities to get your combo off and out damage her. As Ryze if i save my ult for counter pushing, well then her push isn't a problem.


People lose to Soraka when they can't work out how to out damage starfall, or when they see Soraka low and forget she has two heals and get baited to take too many starfall stacks. I see people against Soraka die and say "oh so cheap, she used heal", well duh. Damage Soraka in mid on SR, stopped being popular after a brief while for a reason, once other casters get to the point that they can out burst her, they win the lane. People who aren't used to facing Soraka get baited and die.

Back to Yorick, I think the issue is if the yorick doesn't buy additional MR, a lot of his damage to kill a soraka will be from melee, which means he will take 4-5 starfall stacks potentially. I've seen Yoricks both crush Soraka and be crushed by Soraka, so I imagine changing their build slightly is one of the key variables. Otherwise the Yorick will be out pushed.


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v4v3nd3774

Senior Member

02-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessEvolutio View Post
With merc treads her max silence is 1.875 seconds. The cast for starfall is 2.5 seconds, 1.5 seconds with max cdr. If you engage right after she starfalls, if she silences you straight away, you'll get hit by 1-3 starfalls max depending on how coordinated you are vs how coordinated she is. With the added MR from Merc treads, this will absorb most of the MR shred that you would have taken.
So in your hypothetical scenario *your* champion is allowed merc treads and MR, but soraka isn't allowed cdr, pen and mr of her own?

I responded to a comment that suggested she's not viable at the moment. I don't care if you feel like you can handle her with your repitoir of champions or that if you feel she can't stand up to some of the strongest(read banworthy) bot lanes in the game. She is viable(read viable doesn't mean best champ or strongest at a certain point, just that a champion has merit in choosing and has a place in champion selection).


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DoctorEvolution

Senior Member

02-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by v4v3nd3774 View Post
So in your hypothetical scenario *your* champion is allowed merc treads and MR, but soraka isn't allowed cdr, pen and mr of her own?

I responded to a comment that suggested she's not viable at the moment. I don't care if you feel like you can handle her with your repitoir of champions or that if you feel she can't stand up to some of the strongest(read banworthy) bot lanes in the game. She is viable(read viable doesn't mean best champ or strongest at a certain point, just that a champion has merit in choosing and has a place in champion selection).
Firstly I apologize to those I seem to have offended, that wasn't my purpose.

Ryze could be a terrible example, its quite possible that Ryze is the counter pick for Soraka. I am responding to posts saying that soraka will out damage you with starfall and my posts were hypothetical and the strategy I suggested against Soraka wouldn't work. Ultimately with the changes to Soraka, repeatedly out damaging her, will put a huge drain on her mana as she may not have as much sustain. It will ultimately depend on how big the reduction to starcall is. If starcall only costs 30 after the patch, soraka will probably go up a few tiers for dominion. I believe the changes may slighly reduce her pushing power due to less sustain but won't affect her damage

I was talking about strategy against Soraka, not that she isn't viable, I don't think the changes will affect her current viability all at much depending on how dramatic they are. I don't believe she is the strongest nor the weakest. She can stand up against some of the strongest depending how they play. I even said in my post, that she is able to crush Yorick's who don't alter their build. Also in my post I was talking about when she has max cdr. I was merely responding to posts who said that if you try and go near a Soraka you'll die.

Its not hypothetical at all, given her cooldowns, even with silence and max cdr, and a proper build, most AP casters can get in and out before she does her massive damage. Soraka in bot lane, is a hero that forces people to play a bit carefully or they will get punished hard. Your original post implied that people can't even get close to Soraka.

Soraka can absolutely crush people on bot, when either they are too afraid of starfall and get pushed out of lane, or they take too many hits from starfall. Also when people forget about Soraka's heals, they will stay too long in starfall and also die.

With a reasonable build (400 AP, max cdr), Soraka's Q could do 400 damage, W 475 damage. with 100-170ish MR depending on how balanced the build is.

Ryze's combo (200 ap. 3600mana), Q 468 damage, W 500 damage, E 205
100-154ish MR depending on whether you take void staff or Abyssal Scepter:

If Soraka hits you with three Starfalls, thats an impressive 1675 raw damage. If Ryze in this instance hits with Q,E,W,Q,R,Q or (Q,E,R,Q,W,Q) thats 2104 raw damage. If you repeatedly harass with Q,E,W,Q and take two starfalls, the extra damage will be more than Soraka's heal.

If the enemy doesn't build MR, Soraka will be very strong, if the enemy takes too many starfalls (usually more than three), Soraka will also be very strong. If you can get in and and burst, and get out, most AP carries will do more damage.

Soraka can potentially counter casters that either have large cool down times, or who can't do damage over time higher than her heal rate.


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