Morello what is your take on soraka bot lane.

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Akai Tsuki

Senior Member

02-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Oh, we didn't forget Sona.

Apparently, we nerfed support so hard into the ground that they're still dominant
That's not an issue of support being too strong, but there is nothing that is effective in the same way as they are. As in, there is no competition in the role, not in champion strength, and thus support is still the best option.


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DFxKazuto

Senior Member

02-09-2012

I believe the reason why Soraka and Sona are preferred supports and cause such a stir is due to the fact that they both have such excellent utility AS WELL AS their heal. (Soraka has a -magic resist damage, silence, mana restore, passive magic resist and an armor boost. Sona has a passive buff, whether that be movement speed, offencive or defencive, higher defencive buff on her heal, speed % boost, and an AoE CC ulti, as well as a semi-exhaust or slow on her power chord).

Janna is also a great support because of her utility arsenal, but she lacks that sustainable heal. (Knock up, Slow, AD buff shield, knock-back)

Taric possess the very same sustainable heal, but lacks the utility kit that the three above possess. (Only has a stun and a armor buff, as well as an offencive buff, but since this thread is mainly about the early-game lane, the buff doesnt play a large role as it is mainly used in fights/ganks, rather than farming).

The rest, Alistair, Leona, Morgana, Nidalee, Lux, Zilean, Karma, Blitzcrank all either lack the utility or the sustainable heal that is required of a support in the current meta.


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selenvar

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Senior Member

02-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You'll see in the next patch - I think you hit it on the head. Her lack of mana reliance in lane pushes her over the top.

We found a new opportunity to ramp up a couple things on her and fix the problems. It should provide a better lane experience (and more interesting choices) generally.
something like Soraka gives her own mana to a team mate?

making it a longer cooldown if she gives mana but a shorter cooldown if she uses it to silence?


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Yiyas

Junior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KazutoMataro View Post
I believe the reason why Soraka and Sona are preferred supports and cause such a stir is due to the fact that they both have such excellent utility AS WELL AS their heal. (Soraka has a -magic resist damage, silence, mana restore, passive magic resist and an armor boost. Sona has a passive buff, whether that be movement speed, offencive or defencive, higher defencive buff on her heal, speed % boost, and an AoE CC ulti, as well as a semi-exhaust or slow on her power chord).

Janna is also a great support because of her utility arsenal, but she lacks that sustainable heal. (Knock up, Slow, AD buff shield, knock-back)

Taric possess the very same sustainable heal, but lacks the utility kit that the three above possess. (Only has a stun and a armor buff, as well as an offencive buff, but since this thread is mainly about the early-game lane, the buff doesnt play a large role as it is mainly used in fights/ganks, rather than farming).

The rest, Alistair, Leona, Morgana, Nidalee, Lux, Zilean, Karma, Blitzcrank all either lack the utility or the sustainable heal that is required of a support in the current meta.
Sona is literally the easiest support to play ever. Soraka is about as easy but needs some map awareness for ult. Janna is as good as Soraka/Sona when you can time the shields. Taric is the worst due to mana issues but +70 AP/AD is HUGE in teamfights with morgana/kennen/galio/katarina/fiddles/wukong/etc.

Alistar counters an aggressive lane. Leona is a strong aggressive lane with Ashe/Tristana. Morgana/Nidalee/Lux have bad mana. Zilean and Karma rely too much on items. Blitz can counter Soraka+Taric quite hard because of speed+pull into knock up and silence.


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Kaio Fernandes

Senior Member

02-09-2012

so basically u are nerfing soraka again.

tsc tsc

now she runs out of mana? what are u gona do? infuse no longer self castable and no longer grants mana to soraka on ally cast?

it used to give her double mana on self cast u know?

why not just remove soraka entirely and release a new champion instead?

-.-


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Mr PoopyMan

Senior Member

02-09-2012

I'm glad Soraka's being nerfed. I grabbed a Graves bot lane with Blitz hook and knocked him up, my Vayne E'd him into the wall, stunned again, and he STILL survived, Soraka triple heal makes me sad sometimes.


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Postal Miku

Senior Member

02-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Yiyas View Post
Sona is literally the easiest support to play ever. Soraka is about as easy but needs some map awareness for ult. Janna is as good as Soraka/Sona when you can time the shields. Taric is the worst due to mana issues but +70 AP/AD is HUGE in teamfights with morgana/kennen/galio/katarina/fiddles/wukong/etc.

Alistar counters an aggressive lane. Leona is a strong aggressive lane with Ashe/Tristana. Morgana/Nidalee/Lux have bad mana. Zilean and Karma rely too much on items. Blitz can counter Soraka+Taric quite hard because of speed+pull into knock up and silence.
Its pretty much been concluded that people think Soraka is easier then Sona to play
Being passive is always going to be easier then being offensive effectivly


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vargo

Senior Member

02-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I'm not trying to win a popularity contest with support characters - I'm trying to keep them in the game balance-wise without making them ruin it in the process. Since they're still great picks and game-worthy only proves we haven't intentionally (or even accidentally) overnerfed them.

There's tons of threads - unpopular champions (such as support) are getting skins prioritized for them, and we have a new support coming out very soon. We don't release enough new ones, agreed on that front...that's why we have to fix it.
morello do you plan on nerfing all the supports cc? jannas knockup/back, sonas short aoe stun, and sorakas silence?

i dont care about the other supports just these 3 as they are mainly support with no other role attached


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Corpse Princess

Senior Member

02-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Oh, we didn't forget Sona.

Apparently, we nerfed support so hard into the ground that they're still dominant
Now can you please look into Janna's horribly outdated mana costs, Morello?

That's all I ask of you. Janna is an amazing support and I main her, but I find myself running OOM in the lane faster than a Sona. Which is kind of stupid because you need skill to time her shield, while Soraka and Sona you can just heal whenever you want.

Tornado is very costly early on, and being her only agressive skill, she needs to spam it to keep up with Sona's harass and Soraka's sustain, but 90 mana at lv1 is stupid.

200 mana for monsoon at lv1 is stupid as well...

You need to understand that even if a champion is perfectly balanced, power creep exists, and while all the other supports have been changed, Janna has not, so she stil has her bad mana costs from the time she was released.


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vargo

Senior Member

02-09-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It's not, but that was the day Riot games learned the cost of putting out-of-class abilities (AOE CC) on classes that didn't have access to it.

We won't rip this off her, it's more a thing we have to work with now. Design-wise, it's really sub-optimal, but I think we can manage it.

dont hurt janna shes my support main and i have a skin for her -.-