1100 Elo Pubs: "I'm feeding because jungler sucked." - Why this is complete ****

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CherryT

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Member

02-07-2012

I wouldn't make a forum post if this mentality didn't seem to be so prevalent. I had two games where the exact same thing happened. If ONE person at my Elo reads this, it would be worth it.

I was top Gangplank, doing my job. The last game, I shut out an AP Warwick who took too long getting to lane 3 kills to 1, me being up 50 CS by the time I started roaming. I got an Infinity Edge at ~20 minutes. The previous game, stay even with a tanky Jarvin CS-wise, kill him twice before laning phase ends, manage to be able to zone him because of my insane early game damage. Everything goes perfectly for me both games.

All the while, bot has been losing its lane. They're constantly getting ganked, our jungler is slightly behind so he is not able to counter-gank, and because he got behind, he cannot gank bot lane because they are ahead. From what I see, bot continues to put themselves in the position to be ganked, and are ganked repeatedly as expected. Enemy jungle and bot lane are now pretty fed.

Now stop. What should my team have done? I'm honestly wondering, forum reader. This was not an unrecoverable game at this point.

Here's the clincher: bot just keeps stupidly overextending, again putting themselves into the position where they can be killed at the enemy's whim. Instead of sitting at their turret and letting the enemy get creep score instead of champ kills, they continue to run in, complaining that "Our jungler did not gank enough!" The conversation then turns into: "Now the enemy's fed! It doesn't matter. I'm feeding. Jungle lost it."

Let me just take a minute to say that this is by far the stupidest bull**** I have ever heard. You have a fed carry who can help you make it to late game. You've lost your lane; sorry our jungler couldn't help, but that's the way things are. Now you're going to dig yourself and the team into an unwinnable situation? Believe it or not, you could actually ward your lane, wait for us to put pressure on other lanes/buffs, and farm your way back into the game.

Junglers have one primary job: to release pressure on a lane. They are a roaming reinforcement. That doesn't mean score kills, that doesn't mean just randomly show up, that means punish the enemy when they overextend. If YOU are the ones who are setting yourselves up to be punished, or pushing the enemy team into a position where the jungler cannot help, whose fault is it really? And if you're just going to sit there and feed, well there ain't hell to be done about winning this game.

The amount of people who think that League of Legends is a game that can only be won by his or her own work is surprising. Believe it not, the direction of a game isn't just the direction of YOUR game. INDIVIDUAL SCORE is not everything. If you did not do well, that doesn't mean the rest of your team didn't. Stop assuming the worst, play to the best of your abilities until your team surrenders.


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Gnarkill1

Senior Member

02-07-2012

For once an elo hell related post I can get behind. I see this problem a lot as well. People at low elo are way too willing to throw a game and are even more willing to use someone else as a crutch for their poor performance. Unfortunately, more often then not the support and jungler are first to be thrown under the bus. They are also the last person to be thanked when you win and carries will take all the credit no matter how poorly they played. Its just a mentality that most low elo players share simply because they do not grasp the concept of this game beyond their own individual K/D/A. Most of them wont even consider CS, objectives, zone control, map control etc as a basis for their skill level.


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ToP ZŠon

Member

02-07-2012

CherryT
The first big thing you need to do is to tell your team how to procceed without getting killed fast. And by that I mean to not say "STOP FEEDING YOU !@*#&!@*#&!!!!!!!" kind of thing: try to understand, and tell to do X or Y or something that can help your team. Since you're on the team, there are a lot of ways to help.
Example: Bot keeps overextending. Tell your support to buy wards and place then very distant on the lane, however in the main way. They are getting ganked by more than 3 people? start pushing your lane, get towers, make then go to you. You're getting ganked by 2 or more players? Survive, and tell your other lanes to push, or something like that. It's a kind of aggressive play where you know you can do X or Z without getting punished severly, because they're making mistakes.
However, if they're dying on their lane for the other players because they're (kind of) bad, then there isn't much you can do. It happens with everyone, and you need to accept it ( =( ).


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CherryT

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02-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToP ZŠon View Post
CherryT
The first big thing you need to do is to tell your team how to procceed without getting killed fast. And by that I mean to not say "STOP FEEDING YOU !@*#&!@*#&!!!!!!!" kind of thing: try to understand, and tell to do X or Y or something that can help your team. Since you're on the team, there are a lot of ways to help.
Example: Bot keeps overextending. Tell your support to buy wards and place then very distant on the lane, however in the main way. They are getting ganked by more than 3 people? start pushing your lane, get towers, make then go to you. You're getting ganked by 2 or more players? Survive, and tell your other lanes to push, or something like that. It's a kind of aggressive play where you know you can do X or Z without getting punished severly, because they're making mistakes.
However, if they're dying on their lane for the other players because they're (kind of) bad, then there isn't much you can do. It happens with everyone, and you need to accept it ( =( ).
I do my best to remain civil in ranked games (and believe me, after this huge losing streak I've had which dragged me down 200 points, it's tough). I realize this, and I've calmly said in chat during these games that "You need to stop overextending and stop feeding. Just because you believe our jungler did poorly doesn't mean you feed and guarantee a loss for us." I did try to make plays when they were being ganked, even during 3-man ganks because their top lane performed so poorly that I could just push him to his turret and take chunks out of it. Our "bad" jungler helped me to score a top turret (and did some extremely effective ganks when I got 3 man ganked, for that matter) because he knew that would be time better spent than rushing in bot to die to a fed and farmed bot lane. He gets yelled at for bringing us one step closer to our goal in the only way he could without handing the enemy team yet another advantage. I did capitalize on the enemy team's mistakes as often as I could.

This post really isn't for me or feedback on my tactics. I know how to play my roles. This post is for every one out there who thinks they should just throw a game because their individual experience was bad. It's a real problem at my Elo, as Gnarkill also points out.

People get so hung up on KDA in a team game as the beacon of how well their team is doing. It's funny because the one ranked game I have won in the past week was as a 1/10 Taric who lost his turret at 20 minutes in. You know why we came back? Because we were a better team who didn't give up. We coordinated our activities instead of arguing about who cost us the game. We worked as a team: me and my DPS farmed our way back into the game by playing it safe and warding. Our team punished the enemy for being out of position, and when me and Vayne could steal away a few creep from bot when they were pushing mid so we could become effective in our roles, we did. We focused their squishies, engaged only when we could take them, grouped up, and won. We turned it around with superior strategy and tactics.

A LOT of people seem to forget that League of Legends is a TEAM game, not a single-player ego fest where you and your opinion are the only things that matter. That the single indicator of how good a player ISN'T the three numbers in the tab menu, and that one SHOULDN'T base all their opinions of that player and the suggestions they make off of that score. People refuse to change with the course of the game (i.e.: if their tactic isn't working, they don't change it). Instead, they just blame other players who have their own problems and things to take care of when their own tactics don't work. I've run into more than enough people during my run as a League player to see that this mentality is more than common in the people who play this game.

That's what I want to see change. People need to stop acting as individuals and start acting as a team. Just because something SHOULD work doesn't mean it will, and the TEAM needs to change strategy to make things work. People really just need to talk is all, instead of being silent, unhelpful, or insulting.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

02-07-2012

I recently had a game where sona 'stole' a few cs from ashe and ashe raged and decided to go support, forcing the sona to go AD.

This was at 1650 ELO

people will rage at all elos, when that happens it sucks, control the things you can control, do your best to win the game, and dont worry about it, play more games and your elo will go up if you deserve it.


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ninomir

Senior Member

02-08-2012

That's just something people have to get use to. And try to stay calm and do your best regardless.
Especially because I play either Jungle or Support. So at 1 point i got use to not getting praised for my efferods when i go like 0/3/25 Sona or 2/4/14 Udyr.
People just like to blame someone else for their mistakes.
Like the other game I was on Udyr. We had Trynd top that was losing to Wukong terribly.
15 minutes into game he didn't have a single ward top, is constantly overextended and gets ganked constatly. So what does he do? Starts blaiming me for not ganking. I tried explaining to him that I can't gank when he's constantly pushed or dead. So after cople of unsuccessful gank tries top I fel behaind, so I decided to go farm jungle untill I cache up to some point. But luckly our bot was rather good. I helped then push, get kills and had control over dragon. We got first 2 Dragons. Eventually we ended up coming back into the game with our bot and mid and Trynd being somewhat usefull late game. Our support and I kept decent map control that helped us steal a Baron, got a 4 to 1 exchange while enamy was trying to backdoor. Now this is what i consider the biggest mistake that happens at low ELO they see a enemy trying to back door after we get like 4 to 1 exchange in a team fight, and they all start backing to stop one from backdooring instead of 4 man pushing which will eventually force the one to back and try to stop us.
Anyways we ended up wining the game. So I guess it's all about trying your best to get back inot the game. Only in extreme situations when you get like a 7/0 Graves before 20 min mark is there very little chance to get back into the game...


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D4rkSt0rm

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Senior Member

02-08-2012

I also am at the 1100 level and had the same experience. Three games in a row I had a person on my team who raged at the team comp, raged against trolling teammates, or get fed up and just start trying to tank games as an AD carry. Rather than try to adapt to these situations, they just lost all confidence in the team and just gave up, which made the rest of the matches negatively impact both teams (even the other team was like "man, this game isn't even fun").

I can understand being frustrated but doing that just make everybody including the other team just want to stop playing LoL. Intentional feeding is probably the most biggest ******* move a player can do, even in an already bad situation.

If you ever see that junk happen in a game, report it on the spot. I really hate playing with them.

Edit: To clarify the player's scores that fed...
1st Game: Mordekaiser 0/15/0 by 10 min (game went to 20:00 and he afk'ed after that)
2nd Game: Garen 2/9/? by 25 minutes (end game)
3rd Game Ashe 4/17/? by 35 minutes (end game)


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QQ Bra

Senior Member

02-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryT View Post
I wouldn't make a forum post if this mentality didn't seem to be so prevalent. I had two games where the exact same thing happened. If ONE person at my Elo reads this, it would be worth it.

I was top Gangplank, doing my job. The last game, I shut out an AP Warwick who took too long getting to lane 3 kills to 1, me being up 50 CS by the time I started roaming. I got an Infinity Edge at ~20 minutes. The previous game, stay even with a tanky Jarvin CS-wise, kill him twice before laning phase ends, manage to be able to zone him because of my insane early game damage. Everything goes perfectly for me both games.

All the while, bot has been losing its lane. They're constantly getting ganked, our jungler is slightly behind so he is not able to counter-gank, and because he got behind, he cannot gank bot lane because they are ahead. From what I see, bot continues to put themselves in the position to be ganked, and are ganked repeatedly as expected. Enemy jungle and bot lane are now pretty fed.

Now stop. What should my team have done? I'm honestly wondering, forum reader. This was not an unrecoverable game at this point.

Here's the clincher: bot just keeps stupidly overextending, again putting themselves into the position where they can be killed at the enemy's whim. Instead of sitting at their turret and letting the enemy get creep score instead of champ kills, they continue to run in, complaining that "Our jungler did not gank enough!" The conversation then turns into: "Now the enemy's fed! It doesn't matter. I'm feeding. Jungle lost it."

Let me just take a minute to say that this is by far the stupidest bull**** I have ever heard. You have a fed carry who can help you make it to late game. You've lost your lane; sorry our jungler couldn't help, but that's the way things are. Now you're going to dig yourself and the team into an unwinnable situation? Believe it or not, you could actually ward your lane, wait for us to put pressure on other lanes/buffs, and farm your way back into the game.

Junglers have one primary job: to release pressure on a lane. They are a roaming reinforcement. That doesn't mean score kills, that doesn't mean just randomly show up, that means punish the enemy when they overextend. If YOU are the ones who are setting yourselves up to be punished, or pushing the enemy team into a position where the jungler cannot help, whose fault is it really? And if you're just going to sit there and feed, well there ain't hell to be done about winning this game.

The amount of people who think that League of Legends is a game that can only be won by his or her own work is surprising. Believe it not, the direction of a game isn't just the direction of YOUR game. INDIVIDUAL SCORE is not everything. If you did not do well, that doesn't mean the rest of your team didn't. Stop assuming the worst, play to the best of your abilities until your team surrenders.
two ranked games ago i had a chogath that never warded and overextended. i kid u not he said this in game (lee sin was our jungler): Im sorry guys but i refuse to let our lee win this game, feeding"

then died another 12 times going 1/15 by the end of the game.

I FEEL UR PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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rawkt

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Member

02-09-2012

I agree 100% with your post. Unfortunately constructive criticism isn't accepted with most League players. So trying to tell someone what they can do, without raging, somehow always results in the usual "I know how to f-ing play" response.

I think the mentality of "elo hell" players is the only reason it is what it is. People are upset that they're what seems to be stuck in the elo bracket that they don't feel they should be in, get some sort of God complex going, and just get arrogant. Probably went a little off topic, but oh well.

People just need to get over themselves and they'll win more.


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Vidos

Junior Member

02-09-2012

Only thing that sucks... is the un experienced players that have no idea what they are doing will probably never read this... And anyone that is stomp-in around in the forums Probably already knows how to jungle, and or do his job properly... But that all set aside, I totally agree... and i wouldn't say im the best kennen. But when i am him.. there are certain Champs that are my bane, and if i dont get a early edge on them, im constantly being bully'd . Pretty much inevitable, all you can do is
A. dont pay attention to your score. try to stay in lane, and zone as much as possible till hopefully other lanes that are doing well will be there to come and gank.
B. Learn from your mistakes... if every time u go past the river. someone comes out of the bushes... there is probably a good chance someone is in those bushes.
Usually if u can do that... then there is not much of a problem late game. as long as the Feeding dont continue. one thing to give them a snack, But giving them a full meal on a silver platter is just making the game miserable for 4 others...
And i only say this because it seems the last week, has been the worst public random people ever !!! *Sigh*
then you try to give them advice .. and they start dropping N Bombs... Bad games happen, and counter picks are all part of the team and ranked. you can have the most solid team, and if the other team can counter pick each of those champions. Your pretty much usless... so also keep that in mind... So No... Pointing the finger at one person in particular in any ranked game is total B.S. It is a team game and a team effort . which goes down hill severely when people make the same stupid mistake over and over. You over extend, you die, simple as that.. even if there isint a jungle.. you should be watching your other lanes, and help out with your teammates when another lane over extends... Jungle or not.. in the end your team will benefit more... and wards are smart... Oracles is smarter ! keep there wards down and you will have a huge advantage... Map control is a huge huge bonus in any match


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