Reward Influence with Influence Points

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Heimenbreakerr

Junior Member

05-11-2012

[QUOTE=QuoBi;24058250]

Oh boy, do I have lots to say to you.

"this "reward me" mentality is a selfish outlook on a topic that is far deeper than you assume."

-I don't know if you read his original post entirely, but it clearly states that you cannot reward yourself, only your teammates. Therefore, it is not a selfish policy at all, but a policy that focus' on building teamwork. This does not seem selfish to me.

"I want to point out that even though you believe the idea of communism doesn't work in practice, this doesn't mean that it isn't a viable practice in this situation."

-You are literally saying "I know you believe this, but it is wrong." Hahaha. Also, remember we aren't arguing about Communism, so let's shy away from that. This is not the place or the time.

"In war it doesn't matter what form of government the opposing sides take, whoever wins is the winner. In LoL, Wars, Fights, or sports the reward is victory, nothing else."

-First of all, we aren't at war, where did that come from? LoL or sports are much different then war, and although you can draw some similarities, there is no direct correlation.
LoL and sports could be grouped together if anything, and in LoL and sports, there is a much bigger part to them then winning. Games such as LoL, football, tennis, hockey etc... were created for entertainment first, the drive to win is a big part, but to suggest that is the only part would be absurd, and insulting to sports players around the world. If everybody only wanted to win all of the time, and played for no other reason, then why would people play on awful teams who lose constantly? People play for fun. The reward is the enjoyment they get out of playing, and if they are good, winning. (And in this case the reward is also IP, hence our discussion we are currently having. :P)

"If someone whines or feeds or complains or trolls this is a social element. It can affect your strategic game by making victory harder, but you should know that true skill and focus can surpass these obstacles."

-Feeding is NOT a social element, seeing as how it directly effects the game. A person who feeds 40 deaths before 30 minutes WILL lose the game for his teammates. They will all have their builds completed by lvl 14 and your team will be down a player. I assume you play LoL or else you wouldn't be here arguing, but in case you do not play, you can ask any knowledgeable LoL player, and they will confirm that. As far as trolling and complaining, you are right, these are mere social aspects, but social aspects can effect the game.

"One person does not ruin a game, a whole team has to fail."

-In the utmost technical aspect, you are right. But I already explained how a feeder can single-handedly give the game to the other team, and I don't think we need to go into the psychological aspect of how having a troll or a whiner can adversely effect a persons' playing experience. But in case I do, we all know that trolls make people mad, that is their sole objective, and when we are mad, and typing, we play worse. Not to mention the fact that you are one player down. The arguing and miscommunication that ensues when having a troll on your team has, and will wreck many games.
Also, any good leader would say that a team needs unity and strength to win. If your "soldiers in the war", as you'd probably like to put it, are arguing constantly, and red-faced angry with one another, victory becomes much, much harder.
Do you suggest that we all "find our centers" and reach a level of skill few people posses? For us to simply ignore our human emotions and play through, with such skill and perfection, that we make up for the loss of our one teammate? No?
If not, then do you suggest that we simply lose, and accept it, because we were not good enough to overcome this massive obstacle? Then the troll who caused us to lose the game gets off free? No, not free, but with the same reward as us? By rewarding them, we condone their actions.

"But shouldn't this feeder be punished? No. If their team won, they won too."

-Really the feeder lost. Because if they were feeding or trolling, trying to get their team to lose, then they actually failed their objective. But as far as the game itself goes, technically they won, yes. But only because they are a part of the winning team. If we do not punish this feeder then we make it too easy for them to thrive. What is to stop a person from logging on and going AFK? By your logic they should be rewarded! Or somebody to troll or feed? Reward them? What happens when the good players either stop playing LoL, or only play 5-man pre-mades? Eventually, by your rules, everyone would realize: "Why play, and try when my team sucks and trolls me, and if i don't put in any effort I will still be equally as rewarded...?" Then what has LoL become? A useless game, full of trolls and leavers, where you cannot solo-que and win. What happens when you solo-que and EVERYONE on your team feeds other then you? Can you honestly sit here and tell me that "I should be skilled enough to work around them and single-handedly win the game!"? If you want to draw similarities between LoL and Sports or War, then I will play your game. What happens in war when a soldier is caught trying to get his other men killed for the enemy? He is executed. NOT rewarded. It is lunacy to think we would reward spies. Or what happens when a soldier is causing problems among his men? He is PUNISHED. There is a reason that we punish wrong-doers and reward people who do good, I promise. Human beings did not create these things to mess with you. Or in sports? What happens when a player is aweful? They are dropped from the team, or punished, or at the very least, NOT rewarded.

"While you may believe that you alone won a game, imagine how hard it would be to win without any teammates".

-Nobody said they believed that they alone won the game. Also, with this system, if they did, good for them, they still cannot up-vote themselves. The only reason people would get more IP is if their teammates thought they were a pleasant, and helpful person.

"By having feeders merely going to their lane and dying they keep a hero off of your lane and prevent them from killing you. Maybe this is what gave you the time you needed to buy that early BF sword, clinching your lane and giving you that clutch boost for that first dragon."

-This statement alone suggests that you barely play LoL, if at all. For a multitude of reasons, this logic does not check out. I don't even know if it is worth laying them all out. But here are a few:
-A feeder is typically a lower level, and as the game goes on it becomes easier and easier to kill them. Eventually they will simply be one-hit, awarding you virtually zero time to do anything.
-Them "engaging" may fool you into thinking you should also engage (as this IS a team game, like YOU said) and as soon as the fighting starts, your teammate actually just feeds, now you get killed too.
-They do not "keep a hero off your lane". By "hero" I assume you mean champion, and if they feed themselves to the champion in your lane, then the champion never actually leaves your lane.
-Seeing as a feeder doesn't put up a fight, and is quickly dispatched, if you know anything about LoL you will know that with the time it takes for you to recall, and buy your item, and run (or if you are lucky teleport) back to your lane, they could very well have pushed up to the tower, or worse, have gotten more then a few solid blows on it. But hey at least you got that BF sword right...?
-Oh wait. You didn't get that BF sword. Unless you haven't purchased any items yet and have been spending the first 20 minutes of the game saving up your money for it (and if you have, that is another sign that you have no clue what you are doing). Why is this you ask? Maybe it is because you have a useless teammate who is dead or dieing 90% of the time, and therefore you are soloing bottom lane against Soraka and Graves. When you find a way to get in your last-hits in that scenario, short of discovering the fact that you are Dragon-born, let me know. Because until you do, you will be sad and lonely under your tower, with your boots and a dorans blade, and 20 CS (that is creep score in case you don't understand.)
-But wait! At least you will be "clinching your lane and giving you that clutch boost for that first dragon." <-- whatever that means... Oh nevermind. You won't be getting dragon at all will you? Not when you have spent the whole game pushed up to your tower, getting dove, whoring yourself out trying to "get your BF sword". Not when they take dragon over and over because they have clear bottom lane superiority.

"You don't know, and you don't need to know other than stop being so self centered and start thinking about the depth involved in each game."

-You are talking about "depth" yet your unwarranted insults would suggest that you are as shallow as a puddle. You literally cannot name a SINGLE way as to how this system is self-centered, yet you have accused the creator for being so more then once now. In NO WAY does this system benefit anybody unless they deserve to be benefited. Did you not read the system? It was designed to reward people who DESERVE to be rewarded and to punish people who don't. How is that self-centered? It is justice. Or would you have us live in a lawless world?

(If anything you read in here sounds like it is meant to insult or attack you, then it probably is. I hope you are as offended as I was when I read your blatant insults towards Seleleth. What gives you the right to come into this man's thread, a thread where he is merely attempting to fix an obvious problem within the system, a thread where he is simply trying to make OUR (that includes you) gaming experience better, and call him self-centered? More then once too! That sir, was ludicrous, and a crime if you ask me. Seleleth had said nothing adverse towards you or anybody else to warrant such an insult, nor did he display anywhere that he was doing this for personal gain. Seleleth is suggesting ways to fix a problem, and all you did was come into this thread and attempt to shoot him down. You offer no alternatives, no ideas to better the system, you simply are trying your best to halt the progression like a parasite. What would YOU do to help the system? Or do you have no helpful opinion at all? Now I may have responded rude and aggressive, I did so intentionally, but I just want to point out the eloquence in Seleleths' response to your insults. For when he replied to your comment, not only was he nice and polite, but he treated you with respect, respect that you did not show him, and you in no way deserved. Priceless.)


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Heimenbreakerr

Junior Member

05-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by seleleth View Post
I'm sure it won't be implemented by 05.15.12, and Diablo III comes out then, so hopefully I won't have to care any longer that Riot doesn't care any longer.
It's a shame how little they care isn't it? Or else maybe you'd at least get a reply...


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seleleth

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Senior Member

05-14-2012

LOL. Thanks for the passionate defense, Krieger, but honestly I wasn't bothered at all by QuoBi's post.

Besides, I am (or was really--kinda done talking to the Riot wall) doing this for selfish reasons. I wanted this game's community to be more enjoyable for my sake. Sure, others would have benefited (including Riot, as players would stick around--nobody's uninstalling this game because the game isn't fun, but because of the community). But I won't pretend to be so altruistic that the benefit of others alone could have motivated me to push this idea.

Anyway, it's all a moot point. Riot is not listening. I don't mean to sound all melodramatic and full of self-pity. They truly are not listening. We're 11 pages into this thing. The feedback is ovewhelmingly positive. Each time I bump the topic it gains another 2-3 + votes. What exactly are they looking for in this "Feedback - PVP.net" forum? Praise?


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FierCat

Junior Member

05-17-2012

I read the full OP, but I'm not going to read through all 11 pages, so I apologize if this has been said before..

Anyways, I agree with most of the OP, but I think you should be restricted to only 3 votes, with any extra being neutral, further more, you should only get 1 - 2 positive, and/ or 1 - 2 negative votes. Otherwise, couldn't you just vote everyone negative to increase your own reward? Or perhaps you have IP boosts, and buy most things you want with RP anyways, you could simply give away all of your IP by rating everyone positive, even though they did nothing to deserve it.. you could still give 2 people more with this restriction, or take more from 2 people should you choose to do so.


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seleleth

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Senior Member

06-25-2012

Been enjoying Diablo 3 for about a month now. I can see that the fun it has to offer is coming to an end. Was hoping to come back here and see Riot giving a ****, but alas, they don't.

Lots of new skins and champs to buy though!


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bradles

Senior Member

07-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FierCat View Post
I read the full OP, but I'm not going to read through all 11 pages, so I apologize if this has been said before..

Anyways, I agree with most of the OP, but I think you should be restricted to only 3 votes, with any extra being neutral, further more, you should only get 1 - 2 positive, and/ or 1 - 2 negative votes. Otherwise, couldn't you just vote everyone negative to increase your own reward? Or perhaps you have IP boosts, and buy most things you want with RP anyways, you could simply give away all of your IP by rating everyone positive, even though they did nothing to deserve it.. you could still give 2 people more with this restriction, or take more from 2 people should you choose to do so.
If i read the opening statement right (i didn't read much else, just the first 1.5 pages and this one (the 11th)) Your IP is not effected at all by where your votes go. You give 100 IP to your four teammates, but none to yourself. You get IP based on what your teammates say.

Also, bump, and +1, and riot, please show up soon. I'll bump this every day until you do, so get used to it being on the top of the forum list.


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bradles

Senior Member

07-08-2012

come on riot. just say a word or two. Maybe three.


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bradles

Senior Member

07-09-2012

Riot, you annoy me sometimes. There's this thread about a silly little screen resolution problem (which I have too, btw) that was started on June 19, and there's a red post on the matter by July 9th. But this, which is much more serious, has been kicking around since February and a single riot post. I'd be fine with you guys responding with no, but to just ignore this thread is exceedingly rude.


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kiwimango

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Senior Member

07-10-2012

I don't agree with all of OP's suggestions for implementing this, but he has obviously put a lot of thought into this and it is a good idea. It's deffinitely worth looking into.

Though might I suggest instead of being able to rate each of your teammates negative/neutral/positive, simplify it to just rating each of your teammates as either negative/neutral.


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bradles

Senior Member

07-10-2012

so, it occurs to me that this might a good way to distribute your ELO as well...