@Riot - My humble feedback on Dominion's bots

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Gentleman Oz

Senior Member

02-03-2012

I've been playing A LOT of Coop X AI games in the Crystal Scar since the release of the new AI and Iím very impressed with the new variation of bots and their improved strategies, they can chain-CC, work as a team, group up and split when necessary, backdoor, capture while their team battles, use the shrines, wait for reinforcements, get unguarded points behind your back (literally the one RIGHT BEHIND YOU, you map-blind boob!), etc. They implement lots of cool strategies expected from regular Dominion players, you Rioters should be proud of this fine job.

However, there a few points that I believe could use some fine tuning, since I'm an avid bottom lane player most of them focus on the start of the match in bottom lane, so they are as follows:

- Sending the tank to bottom lane: Why? They lack ranged attacks, offensive power and are terrible at cleaning mobs, that's why mages, carries or even assassins are send bottom instead of the tank. The tank should be sent at start to top to help with the team fight for the windmill, not that the bots that go top actually need the extra help, I just feel sad for the poor AI abandoned at bottom to their demise, because...

- The bot on bottom lane thinks he is an assassin: There are two basic ways to win a contest in bottom lane, you can either clean the mobs so they can push themselves to the enemy point or you harass the enemy so hard he either dies or gives up to heal (or you can even do both at the same time), giving you the chance to capture the point and/or kill the remaining minions. For some reason bots on bottom lane always (try to) go for the kill, attacking the player there without even paying attention to the minions. It's only moves are attacking the champion, getting the relic, retreating to heal and repeating everything said above, with ONE exception...

- The bot on bottom lane is near-sighted: Sometimes I grab the health relic nearby or just get out of the lane near the relic and what happens? The bot totally FORGETS I'M RIGHT THERE and waltz through the minions to try to capture my point right next to me! Just for me to return to the lane and get several free shots at it, basically guaranteeing itís death on my hands. Canít it at least wait for the minions to arrive there before it even thinks on capturing? Oh wait, I forgot, the bot also ignores the existence of minions in the lane, oh well.

- The bots aren't as stealthy as they think they are: I still have to see a bot use the fog of war lines that connect the base's entrances to the jungle, SPECIALLY when the 5-point capture scenario occur (so they can backdoor points without being discovered until it's too late), while they at least don't follow the stupid pattern from most players to try to capture all the points in sequence, they can get forced to this if the two points near their base are captured and guarded, really diminishing their strategic options during this inevitable part of the game.

- The bots aren't as mobile as they think they are: Sure they know how to use the jungle, the fog of war, the bushes (back and forth actually) and have a knack for pairing up and back-capturing points from those entrances... the problem is when they leave the lane deliberately just to do that! It would be better if they just stayed there in the lane killing minions to push them and capture the point surrounded by their mobs. If they are already in the jungle or there aren't any nearby champions nor minions then it's fine to try back-dooring, anything else is just a stupid waste of walking time that only tampers with their escape routes later on.

- The bots donít fight till the bitter end: There are a number of scenarios that bots simply let players go away alive even if they could have finished them easily right there, even if that would mean risking their lives by taking extra hits. Attacking under the turret for too long is bad, but Iíve been attacked by a Warwick Bot that simply let me escape to my turret with 1 health bar while he had more than enough life and mana to finish me off right there if he just had the guts to stay and kill! Iím not saying that the bots should have no survival instinct whatsoever, they do make the right move by escaping when their lives are too low to go on, however they could stop initiating attacks on players when they clearly are outnumbered and/or out resourced.

- The game ends too fast: It's a happy game when I can at least complete a Infinity Edge with boots while playing, from the 25-30 or so minutes you can normally expect from a good Dominion game the coop game normally lasts somewhere between 15-20 minutes, which is fun alright but could use some stretching (not even the bots have time to finish their builds either, even with the gold they gain for free). Since upgrading the challenge could be... too challenging (at least for now) how about reducing the amount of damage the nexus normally takes just for this mode? Really, I still have to see a game where the players didn't manage to capture all 5 points and hold them for an awful lot of time.

Sorry if I ended up with so many walls of text, I just wanted to give in my 2 cents on the improved AI on Dominion and how I think they could be tweaked to better entertain us (you guys did swap the support/carry and tank/melee lanes in Summoner's Rift a couple patches ago because of the same reason). I hope it helps improving the game somehow, thank you for your time and patience.


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Gentleman Oz

Senior Member

02-03-2012

Oh I also forgot to add that Karthus Bot is giving double kills when he dies. I dunno about Kog'Maw Bot but this has happened to me a couple times (I even scored a triple kill by finishing him and Miss Fortune Bot at the same time).


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Gentleman Oz

Senior Member

02-04-2012

I know it's kinda too much for me to expect a red response about this, but if any Rioter that worked on the improved AI on Dominion could pop in and tell some of his/her opinions on the matter I would be very grateful


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JasmineChen

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Senior Member

02-04-2012

I've seen them just stand still and let themselves be killed more than once which is even more basic than your stuff (which is good)

also

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentlemane View Post
if any Rioter that worked on the improved AI on Dominion could pop in and tell some of his/her opinions on the matter I would be very grateful
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentlemane View Post
if any Rioter that worked on Dominion could pop in and tell some of his/her opinions on pretty much any matter I would be very grateful


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lbgsloan

Senior Member

02-04-2012

I find the bottom laner thing doesn't matter anyway, since they usually end up leaving and doing whatever at some point. I think it's necessary to have the Dominion bots 'stick' to their initial lanes longer than they currently do. Bottom bot needs to stay there much longer before deciding to roam. The top bots need to group more often. They break off too much, and end up losing everything because they die 1-2 at a time. At most only 1 bot should be a 'roamer', while the other 3 stay grouped and attack mid/top. They also need to 'stick' to a friendly point once they hold 3 points and just try to defend.

On a more specific note, Galio bot gets scared and cancels his ult a lot. The strongest bot AIs tend to be the AP carries. The AD bots get confused too frequently. They need to retreat less, and just fight to the death doing as much damage as possible more often. They should only think of backing off if they detect a 1v2 (or worse) situation.


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Hobocop

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Senior Member

02-04-2012

It's fun when you start bot and just hide in the two bits of brush at the bottom side of the lane. The bot will go super oblivious mode and just go right for your point until you show yourself again and then suddenly turn around. Repeat for a fun dance.


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Gentleman Oz

Senior Member

02-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobocop View Post
It's fun when you start bot and just hide in the two bits of brush at the bottom side of the lane. The bot will go super oblivious mode and just go right for your point until you show yourself again and then suddenly turn around. Repeat for a fun dance.
Really? I thought they only did this when you walked near the relic on bottom lane (it's on the "near sighted" part of my post).

I don't know why they are programmed like this if they could just be like the bots in middle lane on Summoner's Rift: farm the minions, push the lane, harass/kill when the palyers get in range and attack the turret (in this case, capture the point) once the minions arrive there, simple yet effective