AD vs Arm pen runes

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Deathfairy

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerGregorian View Post
I always take arPen runes, if you need flat AD runes just to last hit then my friend you suck at last hitting.

So top world players do not have 100% success rate as cs, but some no badge is too good, that he doesn't need flat ad to cs better. Makes sense.


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acosn

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Short answer? Champions who deal physical damage but don't rely on auto-attacks want flat AD because they typically have abilities scaling to AD. IE- Garen, Riven, Renekton. Ultimately if they need to cut large amounts of armor they will typically fall back on a Last Whisperer, which automatically maxes out your percentage based armor pen.

Champions who rely on auto-attacks want flat armor pen because the item trees they want to rely on work best with that- Youmuu's Ghostblade and Black Cleaver. Teams fundamentally don't stack armor so high that the combination of masteries, runes, and those items would be undone by the bonuses a LW grants.


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corallein

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by acosn View Post
Short answer? Champions who deal physical damage but don't rely on auto-attacks want flat AD because they typically have abilities scaling to AD. IE- Garen, Riven, Renekton. Ultimately if they need to cut large amounts of armor they will typically fall back on a Last Whisperer, which automatically maxes out your percentage based armor pen.

Champions who rely on auto-attacks want flat armor pen because the item trees they want to rely on work best with that- Youmuu's Ghostblade and Black Cleaver. Teams fundamentally don't stack armor so high that the combination of masteries, runes, and those items would be undone by the bonuses a LW grants.
It's the opposite, actually.
Auto-attackers prefer flat AD because it boosts their early game more than ArPen, in addition to improving last hitting.

Champions with abilities that do physical damage tend to prefer ArPen since that also applies to the base damage on the skill and thus scales with levels on it.
Edit: Whether or not a champion prefers AD to ArPen runes ultimately depends on the AD scaling they get and the base damage on their abilities.


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acosn

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by corallein View Post
It's the opposite, actually.
Auto-attackers prefer flat AD because it boosts their early game more than ArPen, in addition to improving last hitting.

Champions with abilities that do physical damage tend to prefer ArPen since that also applies to the base damage on the skill and thus scales with levels on it.
Edit: Whether or not a champion prefers AD to ArPen runes ultimately depends on the AD scaling they get and the base damage on their abilities.
The math is already done. Unless you're playing a character who has favorable AD scaling on their abilities there's almost no reason to not run armor pen runes.


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corallein

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunit View Post
This information is actually incorrect. Mundo can have over 100ad ad level one with his e. Also there are many many other champions who can have over 100 ad with runes a dorans blade and a buff from team. Any champion with an ad buff like Fiora, Yi, noct, the old kayle, gp, tryndamere, and riven if you wanna count her. Dont make exaggerations unless youre positive. It just makes you look stupid.
Fine, nit-picking.

Doran's Blade is almost never bought as a first item. Most of the time, it's a bad first item since it doesn't give you enough sustain. -10 AD
When considering AD vs. ArPen runes and the relative gains, you can't add the value of the AD runes in preemptively. -15.3 AD

Except for Mundo who has a temporary buff that no one takes first anyway (W for jungling, Q for laning), no champion can come close to to 100 AD at level 1 BY THEMSELVES. Sure, you can stack auras like GP taking Raise Morale first and Sona with her Q aura, but that's venturing into overly specific situations.


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corallein

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by acosn View Post
The math is already done. Unless you're playing a character who has favorable AD scaling on their abilities there's almost no reason to not run armor pen runes.
Chaox's Corki guide: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=12941
Graves guide: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=8896
Caitlyn: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=1700
Kog'maw: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=5687
Ashe: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=17118

OH LOOK, IT'S ALL STRENGTH RUNES.
You're absolutely right, the math has been done. And the math says that AD runes add a lot more damage at early levels than ArPen runes. And early game matters a lot. Get fed, snowball to victory. Feed, snowball to a loss. All those ArPen runes don't help if you're a whole item behind the enemy because you lost the early game.


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Crazyflames

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Senior Member

03-05-2012

It also depends on whether LW is part of your build or not, if you buy LW flat armor pen becomes much less effective.


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BBFSmokedCayenne

Senior Member

03-05-2012

what about magic penetration and Ability power? Is ability power better than magic penetration?


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defleppardruelz

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Senior Member

03-05-2012

ad runes on ranged ad carries, armor pen on everyone else is what i like to do. i usually don't switch out my runes and just use ad reds with armor pen quints. 10 armor pen is decent with the quints and 9 ad off runes helps last hitting.

but yes, the logical thing to do is run ad runes on ranged ad carries and armor pen on everyone else.


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Deathfairy

Senior Member

03-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by acosn View Post
The math is already done. Unless you're playing a character who has favorable AD scaling on their abilities there's almost no reason to not run armor pen runes.

Yes math has been done and it said other wise. You should go hide in dark corner because you made a major fool of yourself.
Just in this thread i showed lvl 2 spear on pantheon does better with arPen rather then with AD.


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