AD vs Arm pen runes

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EndlessAnguish

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Member

01-30-2012

Here's a question for higher ELO players. When is AD better than Arm pen runes? I play solo top in 1450 ELO and still haven't completely understood the difference.


Please leave your ELO for reference XD


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

01-30-2012

AD is a straight boost to how high your potential damage goes.

Armor penetration reduces their damage resistance to your attacks.


Many champs start out with about 15 armor. This means if you hit for 100, they will only take 86 damage worth, due to their resistance of 15/115 = 14% or so.

Getting a full page of Apen reds will reduce this to 0. So they eat 14 extra damage.

Getting a full page of AD will boost your damage by +9ish. So you would only get in 8 extra damage approximately.


So mathematically armor pen is better early game when enemies have low armor amounts. A champ that has AD scaling skills will greatly benefit.

If you are Gangplank with a 300 damage Parrrley, do you want to add +8 damage? Or do you want to keep them from reducing 45 of your damage? Clearly armor pen is better when you have physical damage skills that already have boosts on top of your normal AD.

If you are Yorick though, your W and E nukes are all MAGICAL. Whereas your Q and ghouls are physical.
In this case, you are probably better off with AD. It makes last hitting easier, and scales your Q, Ghouls, and E skills.


TL;DR - Armor Pen is best with champs that have a primary nuke of some kind that deals PHYSICAL damage, or a series of nukes like Renekon or Riven.
AD is best if your champ has a bunch of magical damage skills even though physical-scaling. (like katarina)


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Hayflick

Member

01-30-2012

Really depends on who you're against. If you're against low elo // typically bad players then I would always just stack ad // ap depending on who I was playing.

Good players have NO issue buying a negatron or a defensive item, whereas a bad player will be like "derp I be teh glass cannon"

I like to roll with a mix, I typically use the armor pen reds and quints. However I'm doing all normal queues now and I swapped back out to flat damage.


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corallein

Senior Member

01-31-2012

http://rog.clgaming.net/blogs/a-diff...an-arpen-runes

No champion starts out with 100 AD at level 1. Not even close. Most base values are around 50-60 AD.

Basically, AD gives you more early game damage, but unlike ArPen doesn't scale with additional AD and will be worse later in the game when you have more AD.
The current trend for AD carries is to go all flat AD runes to help with last hitting and early game dominance.


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MemoryLapse

Senior Member

01-31-2012

Understand this: minions have no armor. So while your AP runes MIGHT be slightly more effective than AD runes on heroes, they are basically turned off when you go to farm minion waves. AD runes give you raw lethal strike range.


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sunit

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Junior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by corallein View Post
http://rog.clgaming.net/blogs/a-diff...an-arpen-runes

No champion starts out with 100 AD at level 1. Not even close. Most base values are around 50-60 AD.

Basically, AD gives you more early game damage, but unlike ArPen doesn't scale with additional AD and will be worse later in the game when you have more AD.
The current trend for AD carries is to go all flat AD runes to help with last hitting and early game dominance.

This information is actually incorrect. Mundo can have over 100ad ad level one with his e. Also there are many many other champions who can have over 100 ad with runes a dorans blade and a buff from team. Any champion with an ad buff like Fiora, Yi, noct, the old kayle, gp, tryndamere, and riven if you wanna count her. Dont make exaggerations unless youre positive. It just makes you look stupid.


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Astral Yorae

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Senior Member

03-04-2012

Warrrrax's insight was good.
Also, you need to know in what you want to focus. Each can be better depending on many factors.
I don't like to give a straight answer, as there is no right answer to me. I will tell you to check the graphs in the link below, so you can reach your own conclusion what what is best for what you want.
=D

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1337522


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DMPuffy

Senior Member

03-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunit View Post
This information is actually incorrect. Mundo can have over 100ad ad level one with his e. Also there are many many other champions who can have over 100 ad with runes a dorans blade and a buff from team. Any champion with an ad buff like Fiora, Yi, noct, the old kayle, gp, tryndamere, and riven if you wanna count her. Dont make exaggerations unless youre positive. It just makes you look stupid.
He said base damage.


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Deathfairy

Senior Member

03-05-2012

Reason why brusers top get ArPen 9/10 times i because it helps their high base damage value on abilities. While range carries mostly rely on auto attacking rather then abilities as we well as range last hitting is harder then melee and they have lower base attack generally.

Lets take pantheon as example, his spear base damage at lvl 3 is 105. Full red + quints is 15 ad vs 25 armor pen.

vs 25 armor target:

105 (arPen) vs (105+15x1.4)x.8 = 96 damage.

vs a 50 armor target
105x.8 = 84 damage (arPen) vs 121x.66 = 80 damage.

As you can see base damage makes arPen better even at low levels, and it scales better into mid game.

But if you look at the link provided it show that for auto attacks flat ad is better early on + it makes las hitting better which is why it is preferred on range carries.


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DerGregorian

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Senior Member

03-05-2012

I always take arPen runes, if you need flat AD runes just to last hit then my friend you suck at last hitting.


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