Baron's Call/Global Taunt OP?

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Snipawolfe

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Honestly, I just finished a low ELO ranked match and we won because the enemy team decided to grab Baron while our whole team was up. We pushed through the second tower on bot, the inhib tower, the inhibitor, and BOTH nexus turrets before they finished and returned to base to stop us. Why is Baron's call so strong? What's the allure? ~10% more damage and 300 gold per teammate? It's the equivalent of taking two towers, gold-wise. We came out ahead in terms of gold (600 per person instead of 300) and even though they pushed back through mid up to our inhibitor tower, they basically got themselves killed off by fighting a long battle under the tower. We just pushed back down through mid and it was GG.

Baron seems so worthless unless the enemy team is turtling in base or down enough people to not be a threat. It's a delicious bait if the enemy doesn't want to come out (start Baron to see if they'll try to "ambush" your team/steal it) or it's a free 300g + buff, but I feel outside of those scenarios, it's just a "noob-trap" right now.


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Niglene

Junior Member

01-27-2012

Keyword, low elo.


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ADGarner

Senior Member

01-27-2012

I'm not sure I follow. Baron is good because it can force a team fight because of it's very powerful buff and global gold but it's also simultaneously a noob trap?

The allure is obvious. You should not in ideal circumstances allow the opposing team to have uncontested money and buffs.


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Snipawolfe

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Even in high ELO streams I've watched, people will suicide to Baron (or prime themselves to have it stolen because they're taking it at level ~12 and they're all taking ridiculous damage). Maybe it'll be different when I climb the ELO ladder, but it just seems like going for Baron is typically a bad idea and usually breaks the team that's going for it in one way or another.


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ADGarner

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipawolfe View Post
Even in high ELO streams I've watched, people will suicide to Baron (or prime themselves to have it stolen because they're taking it at level ~12 and they're all taking ridiculous damage). Maybe it'll be different when I climb the ELO ladder, but it just seems like going for Baron is typically a bad idea and usually breaks the team that's going for it in one way or another.
I imagine what you're experiencing is a misinterpretation of events. Often times a losing team will try to gain an advantage by forcing a baron fight or taking baron. The losing team is hoping that if this risky gambit pays off the rewards will help them get out of a tough situation.

You'll notice that teams who are at an advantage will rarely attempt baron while the entire opposing team is still up. They have no reason to. They are at an advantage and will likely secure a better trade in kills soon and then they can take it uncontested. Only the team at a disadvantage will believe that this risky behavior is worth while because they have been in a asymmetrical struggle for awhile.

It is important to note that a team that is at a disadvantage has a lot to gain from securing a Baron buff. If they can get it and get a positive trade in kills in the late game it could change the entire course of the game due to long death timers. This is what every losing team is hoping will happen. Often however those teams because of their disadvantage do not have the damage or wards to secure it with out significant risk.


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JxC

Senior Member

01-27-2012

but that isn't barons "allure"... isn't it just the opposing teams lack of common sense for making a retarded decision lol.


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Snipawolfe

Senior Member

01-27-2012

ADGarner, the problem is that people will usually sacrifice too much for Baron, from what I've seen. In my example from today, they gave up pretty much their entire base for Baron, and it was totally not worth it even if it was uncontested. They were racing against time because we were on their nexus and had already taken towers.

Why take Baron if the enemy team will wreck your base or take too many towers? It's great, IF you can get it without sacrificing a lot. That's why I say it's a noob-trap. Why in the world go for Baron if the enemy team will get all the way to your nexus for it? It's useful for pulling enemies out of base or in an ideal situation (aced or one or two enemies left) taking it for the bonuses, but as I said, outside of these scenarios is when it becomes a noob-trap. It gets dangerous or even sacrificial depending on how the other team responds to yours trying to take it.

Edit: I think you're right about your latest post. Baron could give a losing team an edge. It's risky, but if they pull it off, they could win a teamfight/get a gold advantage and if nothing, they're now empowered.


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ADGarner

Senior Member

01-27-2012

Baron is simply just a way for a team at a disadvantage to try and even the odds or a team with an advantage to try and force the fight. It's a high risk high reward.

Baron it's self is not a noob trap. The trap is in the numbers. It's like when people try to solo dragon at early level. Some champions excel at it. A person might see some one else do it and think they can do it in their next game. But when they try it they find it takes so long and the enemy ganks them. The new player might not realize that what allowed the early dragon was the Wriggles Latern that they may or may not have purchased. With out the bonus damage effect from the Madreds dragon can be very challenging. The numbers can be so byzantine in this game that it forces a new players eyes to glaze over. Consider that in the tutorial that the idea of effective health is never mentioned.

Your story hinges on this crucial information. An informed team understands the numbers and can quickly determine whether or not they have the damage to defeat Baron in enough time. An uninformed team might be making a gut decision based on prior experiences that they think are similar (I took baron once and my team turned it around) but really are not the same. (Because of items or champion composition)


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Yamsa

Member

01-27-2012

Baron ... can force opponents to either engage... or give your team 300 gold and an amazing buff ... timing / warding / forcing a baron / countering a baron is massively important. T he key is knowing positioning and timing to do so.. as a ALL ELSE FAILS LETS BARON WERE LOSING... only really works about 20% of the time.. IF that. ex. 28 min into the game teams are even in kills , you just kill 1 of them , now if u force a baron on them its a 4v5 fight.. in your favor ... or they give u baron .. in your favor , even if they push a tower down in desperation , its still a MASSIVE gold gain for your team.