the new "jungle"

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Winkyy

Junior Member

01-23-2012

Fiddles still viable but he struggles with the jungle in the later clears & fails pretty hard w/o blue buff


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SavageWolves

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Senior Member

01-23-2012

@Winkyy Lol you actually looked at my match history?

You think I've only played Skarner? Wrong. I bought him about three weeks before the last patch. In the old jungle I was a boss Fiddle player, also using Warwick and Nunu. They aren't as viable anymore as the other junglers I play now, including Amumu, Lee Sin, and Malphite. So sure I play Skarner. He's good.

I work ganks into my route and take them as they're available. You don't lose exp off that. Covering lanes is worth more exp than jungling anyway; this is also a good thing to do.

I raged for about a week after the new jungle came out thinking that it sucked before I learned that it was just different. In my opinion, the new jungle has a lower skill floor but a higher skill cap for ideal effectiveness.

If you're so mad about the new jungle you can play another role and let someone who likes it do it, or play a different game. Riot's new jungle is working, and they're not going to change it back.

@Endomarru Fiddle doesn't work as well anymore because the creeps actually have less HP (and he is slow compared to the AoE boys). He can't sustain off most of the camps because drain kills the now weaker minions too fast, and it goes on cooldown and he takes more damage while it is on cooldown. If they reduced the duration and decreased the cooldown it might work better in the new jungle.


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Strikerfox

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Senior Member

01-23-2012

I do understand wanting to make the jungle viable to more champs, but it weakens the game. After getting to lvl 30 and having a horde of IP to spend on runes, I was looking forward to learning jungling. Unfortunately, the jungle is a joke for champs that are meant to jungle (I'm looking at you, WW). I've been the victim of pro junglers (on my team) being underleveled and underitemed due to the reduced rewards. It's nice that Graves could jungle if he wanted, but it's also stupid.


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SavageWolves

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Senior Member

01-23-2012

I've been thinking of trying Ionic Spark on WW to speed up his clear times.


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I0N

Senior Member

01-23-2012

ancient golems give no xp anymore


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Winkyy

Junior Member

01-23-2012

Its just frustrating that when you do so well on ganks and you end up getting fed when jungling that you can still find yourself underleveled. How well a team performs should be strongly affected by the jungler, not the other way around. I find that while ganking I lose a lot of xp, and I end up getting underleveled if I have to camp a particular lane so that it succeeds. Yes, watching a lane while somebody recalls is fine no problems with that you get fine xp.

The problem is that how well your team does plays a big role in how you do, when it should be the other way around. Its harder for good junglers to get noticed, because if you have to constantly gank while your camps are up, you are losing a lot of xp. Whereas with the old jungle, I could get some good counterjungling in with Nunu, getting ahead of their jungler, gank, then clear my jungle and I would be ahead. Now if you do that, you find yourself getting behind the enemy jungler if they decide to clear whats left. I find that they don't have to go into your jungle to counter back because the respawn timers are so low. Many games I've played with Lee sin and counter jungled (in the new jungle) and have gotten kills on the enemy jungle in their jungle, then have cleared some of theirs and gone to gank and recall. I thought I could get away with doing more ganks because I would be ahead of their jungle, but I made sure I cleared mine when I could. Yes, my lanes won, but even their bot lane had a level on me. Despite the kills I had gotten, I was less effective..


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Impru

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Member

01-23-2012

I like the new jungle, seems balanced


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Gahlo

Senior Member

01-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winkyy View Post
Its just frustrating that when you do so well on ganks and you end up getting fed when jungling that you can still find yourself underleveled. How well a team performs should be strongly affected by the jungler, not the other way around. I find that while ganking I lose a lot of xp, and I end up getting underleveled if I have to camp a particular lane so that it succeeds. Yes, watching a lane while somebody recalls is fine no problems with that you get fine xp.

The problem is that how well your team does plays a big role in how you do, when it should be the other way around. Its harder for good junglers to get noticed, because if you have to constantly gank while your camps are up, you are losing a lot of xp. Whereas with the old jungle, I could get some good counterjungling in with Nunu, getting ahead of their jungler, gank, then clear my jungle and I would be ahead. Now if you do that, you find yourself getting behind the enemy jungler if they decide to clear whats left. I find that they don't have to go into your jungle to counter back because the respawn timers are so low. Many games I've played with Lee sin and counter jungled (in the new jungle) and have gotten kills on the enemy jungle in their jungle, then have cleared some of theirs and gone to gank and recall. I thought I could get away with doing more ganks because I would be ahead of their jungle, but I made sure I cleared mine when I could. Yes, my lanes won, but even their bot lane had a level on me. Despite the kills I had gotten, I was less effective..
Longer a camp is up the more XP/Gold it gives. By killing outright or killing off most of the enemy jungler's camp the camp now has to respawn AND get to the threshold where it starts banking. Then you can go back home and clear your own jungle, giving you an even farther lead on your opponent jungler. Buff camps are the prime spots to steal because of the disparity in XP. Heavy counterjungling was how M5 largely rolled through Kiev.

Banking allows for things like this and some leeway with failing ganks. If you're failing so many ganks that you're super underleveled then you need to look at your own play.

The jungle is different and it won't change for a while. You need to look at your own play and improve/adjust.


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Winkyy

Junior Member

01-23-2012

yea ok


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Winkyy

Junior Member

01-23-2012

I disagree I'd have to say theres a lower skillcap since the junglers in every game are underleveled. The new Jungle is so gimmicky the cap for gold & xp isn't even that much, it doesn't compare to the old jungle where it separated the good from the bad. The skillcap is smaller because junglers can only get to a certain point before they start becoming incredibly underleveled. Every game I'm in (including ranked, norms, draft) junglers are consistently underleveled. Sure, you can say "yea d00d dats bcuz ur bad". Alright, whatever. But to say that everybody I'm going against is bad as well? Come on now. Thats ridiculous- the new jungle is limiting and disapointing.


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