Manamune on Blitzcrank

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Exsnypre

Senior Member

01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugs From Momma View Post
Agreed Manamune is just too distracting from your main goal of being tanky and annoying. Never liked delaying my CDR and tanky purchases.

I like OV for my MR, it's worth a lot more than fon defensively once you calculate the 10% damage reduction effect.
If you don't think manamune contributes to Blitz's tankiness you need to read his passive. Blitz wants lots of mana to make him tanky. Manamune converts that into damage for him. It's that simple. He's going to build Frozen Heart and Odyn's Veil. He should build a Manamune too. It's what makes him deal damage. Sheen itself won't cut it. Anything else just detracts from his tankiness.

In essence, Blitz wants manamune to make him more tanky and give him damage. If you believe it doesn't accomplish that you're mistaken.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-16-2012

Manamune isn't really a question of gold efficiency on Dominion, and the same goes for Rod of Ages.

It's Time vs. Effectiveness. What can I buy NOW that will help me take and hold points the most effectively? An early Shroud + Trinity Force will be more effective at the time you can purchase it, than rushing a Manamune. Sure, you can rush Manamune, but it will simply not be as effective at the time you purchase it, as the alternative would.

Will it be more effective later on when you've hit that 2k mana threshold? Yea, maybe. However it's simply raw damage + Mana at that point. What are you using those for? The mana is mainly for survivability, which I can get from any number of other items that provide other benefits as well (such as Odin's Veil), and the damage is for damage... which again I can get from any number of other items that provide other benefits as well (such as Infinity Edge).

Is it a very efficient item? Absolutely. But it's not about gold efficiency because of Dominion's emphasis on time. I can forgo the Manamune for items that secure me a greater advantage early, to obtain more kills and points that secure a gold advantage, which I can then invest in items that further push that advantage.


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brossef

Senior Member

01-16-2012

the best thing that manamune gives blitz is a large mana pool, so when your passive kicks in you have a massive shield which will turn the fight easily.


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

01-16-2012

When did I say rush manamune?

And everything is a question of gold efficiency. If you are never gold efficient you WILL lose to someone who is more gold efficient. There are points where you choose utility over efficiency, and that is not a bad thing to do, but if you ignore efficiency that is also bad.

Going for something like a triforce first is very expensive and a fair amount of the stats on that triforce don't really help blitzcrank, not the best item for him.

Gold efficiency from purchase is what I am talking about. If you have a glacial shroud and plan on upgrading it, and possibly even building an odyns, then build a manamune once you have that shroud. You will do far more damage, and your damage will continue to scale, after which you could go pure tank and still put out reliable damage


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EMeta

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Senior Member

01-16-2012

Those of you that like manamune are making a pretty good case for it. But the question for me is still *when*. What do your build orders look like? I'm honestly interested.


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RealWolf M

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Senior Member

01-16-2012

When do you feel you are satisfied with your defense and want damage output?

Do you feel confident playing without the defense early, which will boost that damage output lategame?

What champions are you playing against?


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EMeta

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01-16-2012

I'm not expecting to have 2110g at one back. It happens, sure, but not usually. When do you start the tear? After some CDR? What do you open up with?


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The Wrongsword

Senior Member

01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWolf M View Post
Once more, idiots post that you can't get tear fully charged... so what

If you have over 2k mana, your manamune is giving you the best gold/cost any item can. With it as your ONLY damage item and then frozen heart + odyns, you are still getting incredibly good value for money, even uncharged.

Please go learn about items before you make posts saying that manamune is bad
Even at 2k mana, Atma's is more efficient cause blitz can easily get to 2.5 - 3k health, and atma's gives armor and crit chance (helps with trinity). Manamune gives a chunk of dmg but unlike the big efficient items (trinity, atma's, IE, etc) it doesnt give anything else to do with the dmg.

At 2k mana, manamune is not super efficient, it is merely on par with a BF sword. (1650 gold for 45 dmg is about the same ratio as 2110 gold for 60 dmg). If you can charge the tear, it becomes efficient, without charging it is merely ok, but there are better, more efficient options.

For me, the deciding factor against manamune on blitz is that at one point you have to invest 1000 mana into an item that does nothing more than give a 150 hp shield on a minute cooldown. Later on when you charge it and complete manamune its a little better but just building the tear sets you way back in dom.


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The Wrongsword

Senior Member

01-16-2012

Also should be noted: blitz's shield scales of CURRENT mana pool, not MAX mana. So if you are constantly casting your skills while running around the jungle to charge your tear, you are going to have a less than full mana pool when you get into a fight, which gives you a smaller shield. This undermines the whole point of the tear as a source of a huge blitz shield.

Unlike on SR, in dom he will never fully charge his tear, not even close, so he will always want to spam spells to charge it up. So this problem will persist until late game: either you dont spam spells and dont utilize the primary purpose of the tear, or you cast spells whenever you can and enter into battle 500 mana down already.

IMO manamune on blitz is much better as an SR item. The downsides of the manamune are much less noticeable on SR when you have more time to put into it.


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Exsnypre

Senior Member

01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Manamune isn't really a question of gold efficiency on Dominion, and the same goes for Rod of Ages.

It's Time vs. Effectiveness. What can I buy NOW that will help me take and hold points the most effectively? An early Shroud + Trinity Force will be more effective at the time you can purchase it, than rushing a Manamune. Sure, you can rush Manamune, but it will simply not be as effective at the time you purchase it, as the alternative would.

Will it be more effective later on when you've hit that 2k mana threshold? Yea, maybe. However it's simply raw damage + Mana at that point. What are you using those for? The mana is mainly for survivability, which I can get from any number of other items that provide other benefits as well (such as Odin's Veil), and the damage is for damage... which again I can get from any number of other items that provide other benefits as well (such as Infinity Edge).

Is it a very efficient item? Absolutely. But it's not about gold efficiency because of Dominion's emphasis on time. I can forgo the Manamune for items that secure me a greater advantage early, to obtain more kills and points that secure a gold advantage, which I can then invest in items that further push that advantage.
A "Quick" Triforce? That doesn't even make sense. It's double the cost of Manamune.