Items to avoid and WHY(semi-guide)

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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Ok I will say this about hte philo stone. I know it sounds wierd but the regen between the catlyst and the stone is more or less equal but the catlyst will do more at once. The second thing I see what you mean but you can get clarity or have mp5 runes.

Nashors you are right about(sorry). I try to get the scenario's for the items right but I'm painfully limitted in my experience(mostly tanks and supportish dps)


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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklz666 View Post
Being a fan of the gunblade (FF8 forever) and second maining jax for a while I actually ended up discovering that the moment I had my tab, my guinsoo, and my gunblade, I was near unstoppable. You really should put a disclaimer on this one specifically for Jax since it is of course in the extreme situational items, and to be honest he is really the only one I can see farming up that kind of money fast enough but also being the champ getting the most from it since he gains max health from both AD and AP (I apologize if someone mentioned this already, when I read this part I felt I had to respond before reading any farther) I would easily without a doubt say this is a core for jax.

No one brought that up! But persoanlly...I preffer FF13 and lightning's gunblade(Yes I am one of the newer fans)


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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-23-2010

bump(malady zerker Yi's are everywhere)


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hitman33333

Member

07-30-2010

I'd just like to push my opinion out among these much more experienced and better players than I. Attack speed takes backseat to attack damage for the most part, in this aspect I agree with the OP. But there's one time where many of these AS items can be a viable choice after you grab some AD, and that's with ranged DPS champs, like TF, Trist, or Ashe. I personally run a Sword of the Divine in my TF build, however along with a quick zeal it's my only AS items I grab.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that AS can be very nice to have as a ranged char. But only after those attacks are actually doing some damage. Just don't get carried away.

And avoid Zerker's greaves... if you're facing a balanced team and think you could use AS... just grab a boots of swiftness at the very least.


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Cumulous

Senior Member

08-04-2010

Last whisper can be amazing, it totally depends on the other team. Warmogs is horid unless for some reason you decide you want HP regen. Even maxed it doesn't give enough HP (so if you don't count the regen since regen doesn't help you tank at all) to justify its cost compared to giant's belts.


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biomorph

Senior Member

08-04-2010

I agree that warmogs is way to cost ineffective. Sure you get a ton of HP and Regen but no armor and/or MR so you do not become that much durable given the cost.

However I would say that Warmogs can be justified for Vladimir for several reasons:
- Passive yields AP which implies more pain.
- Vladimir becomes extremely hard to kill (if played well ofc also)
- HP regen is almost as mana regen would be for other champions and warmogs does this nicely.
- You avoid being focused/harassed as people know you are hard to kill AND you can leech AND you can pool out of trouble (mostly).

I always build a fast Warmogs on Vladimir and get out an cause havoc ... tover diving? No problem.


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havikryan

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Senior Member

08-04-2010

attk speed IS useful attack speed ww is **** good


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Leohan

Senior Member

08-04-2010

Very helpful indeed!

Just a suggestion - could you put the prices of each item up and also the useful parts that lead to the final item? It might help in showing the cost-effectiveness of your other suggestions. Also, it may help some people in deciding their own selection of items and which parts to rush first. Here's a few to help you out:


Guinsoo's Rageblade (2235)
Hextech Gunblade (3625)
Last Whisper (1965)
Malady (1890)
Nashor's Tooth (2885)
Phantom Dancer (3395)
Randuin's Omen (2925)
Sword of the Divine (2170)
Stark's (2550)
Trinity Force (4070)
Warmog's (3135)
Wit's End (2150)
Youmuu's Ghostblade (2687) - Brutalizer (1337)


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Mr Geppetto

Senior Member

08-04-2010

I agree on most of your points. The only one I saw problems with was this one.

Quote:
Last whisper: I'm sure you know the drill by now, attack speed isn't that good overall.The 40% armour pen is pretty good...so why is it so situational? It works like this Their base reduction-flat armor pen and THEN wits end and it's % pen is applied so if they had 50 armor(in this theoritcal case I'll ignore the in game system for a simplified version of 1 armor=1% reduction). If they have 50% reduction and then you had 20 armour pen you'd bring it down to 30%(this is NOT the in game values, but is a symplified version to help you understand it). then the last whisper would takee out 40% of their remaining armor reduction so it would leave them at 12% armor reduction. Since the way the system works puts the flat armor pen above the percent reduction it makes last whisper less effective. So against tank heavy teams it's good, but against a regular team I can't recomend it. If your a heavy tower pusher then yes it can be good(and is). This is NOT a bad item, it just isn't the go to item for most situations.
"Attack speed isn't that good overall"? You need some attack speed. It's as important to have attack speed as it is to have damage or pen; you'll want a variety of stats to make the gold spent cost efficient since many have diminishing returns. & you might not get such-and-such amount of seconds of freely hitting the enemy champ, but let's face it, it's not like you're getting kills without CC anyhow.

Your statements regarding armor penetration are untrue. % penetration is calculated before flat amounts. The following is taken from the stickied post "Frequently Asked Questions on Mechanics."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpster
Q: What order is armor penetration/MR penetration applied in? (Credit to TiberiusAudley)

A: From top to bottom

Armor/MR Reduction
% Based Armor/MR Penetration
Flat/Linear Armor/MR Penetration
Reduction and penetration aren't the same thing. You get reduction from things like Stark's and you get penetration from things like runes and Brutalizer. For its price, Last Whisper is one of the best DPS items throughout the game whether anyone is stacking armor or not (though it should be noted that you can't penetrate armor past 0).

Edit: I'm with Leohan; it definitely makes sense for you to give the numbers on item pricing.


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ScholarZero

Senior Member

08-04-2010

I've been playing with an Amumu that is summoner level 5 and has trouble getting creep kills. I told him that a Chalice is good on him first; I think a philosopher's stone would be better on him for the time being.

Nice guide. It's a grand summary of all the individual "Blah item is UP" threads and very useful. Make sure you keep it updated with the patches; considering how much time you spent putting it together it would be a waste to let it get outdated.