Items to avoid and WHY(semi-guide)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eppa

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Tiamat is viable vs several melee dps on Twitch


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

alsowikk

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppa View Post
Tiamat is viable vs several melee dps on Twitch
I'm sorry if I'm sounding angry but this is a general guide(really only for about you're first 100 games). I wrote this to help get people to find better items to substitute many common picks that aren't usefull or effecient. I tried to make it clear at the intro that each item has a specific situation it works in, but I don't want to get people hyped up on a weak item or make them think it's a good staple item.

EDIT: I just mean to say is, that while the timiat is good in that situation at the time I felt I couldn't mention it for fear of getting people to think timiat was always a good item for twitch or other characters in all situations(from personal experience it's easy to do). Sorry that the wording wasn't good.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Escher77

Member

07-19-2010

My only note on this is for Nashor's tooth. This item is like meant for a support Taric. (again I am speaking support Aura's/Healing not pure damage which some people try). The attack speed is huge for him to bring up his heal more often ( gets 2 seconds of heal cooldown for every attack). The cooldown is big for him because he does have somewhat long cooldowns. The ability power helps him do more damage with shatter, more damage with stun, more heal with his heal. Overall I admit it may not be great for every hero. Although for some like Taric is it amazing. This being said I don't think it should be on a bad item list. It's not a bad item it's just not for every champ.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CrazyBolas

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by alsowikk View Post
Ok I am NOT a warwick main so this is going to be VERY far off. I'll try though

start you want to jungle so

cloth armour and as many health pots as possible
go for the early blood razer
boots of your choice
starks(if no one else will get it)
wits end(if mana heavy the proc will make you're ult drain them of mana AND deal crazy damage)
guardians angel

NOTE: THis is probably terrible and is made from 2 games experience on warwick
(anyone with a better build help this guy?)
Some of the items that I haven't tried out at all are Y's Ghostblade, Tiamat, and Wit's End. I should probably try those out on Warwick and see how they do. I've heard bad things about Tiamat... sounds like they have the radius wrong for splash damage.

I'm thinking next time I play, do Madred's Razor (later upgrade to bloodrazor), some boots, and work on the ghostblade followed by wit's end.

Would you recommend going for ghostblade first or wit's end first? I was thinking ghostblade due to the gold generation from the item used to make it, and from the increased maneuverability and from the faster run speed clicky, with wit's end as more of a late game item... but on the other hand, an early wit's end could really own, because when someone's drained on mana, their options become really very limited. Much less chance to surprise you and turn the tide of the battle if they can't cast anything, I would think.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Razius

Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentClagg View Post
I believe you're wrong about the Last Whisper. From my understanding armor is calculated as:

Base armor - Armor reduction effects (Black Cleaver, Starks)
Then armor percentage penetration (Last Whisper)
Followed by armor penetration (Runes, Masteries, Brutalizer)

This means that a Last Whisper in conjunction with the 6arp from mastery points and ~30arp will bring a 100armor target to 24armor.
This is wrong, they changed it to
Armor Reduction
Armor Penetration
% Armor Penetration

in that order, so Last Whisper is worth much less.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

alsowikk

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBolas View Post
Some of the items that I haven't tried out at all are Y's Ghostblade, Tiamat, and Wit's End. I should probably try those out on Warwick and see how they do. I've heard bad things about Tiamat... sounds like they have the radius wrong for splash damage.

I'm thinking next time I play, do Madred's Razor (later upgrade to bloodrazor), some boots, and work on the ghostblade followed by wit's end.

Would you recommend going for ghostblade first or wit's end first? I was thinking ghostblade due to the gold generation from the item used to make it, and from the increased maneuverability and from the faster run speed clicky, with wit's end as more of a late game item... but on the other hand, an early wit's end could really own, because when someone's drained on mana, their options become really very limited. Much less chance to surprise you and turn the tide of the battle if they can't cast anything, I would think.

Bloodrazer's can proc off his ult so it is VERY good with him. I'd recomend the early ghostblade and brutalizer since the brutalizer gives you cooldown,armor pen and damage for a cheap price. The avarice blade isn't that good so I'd save it for lasts. Wit's end also will proc off the ultimate so it really comes down to is their someone who needs to be drained of mana before they can do a good chunk of damage? If so go for the early wits end, if not then go for the early ghostblade.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

alsowikk

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razius View Post
This is wrong, they changed it to
Armor Reduction
Armor Penetration
% Armor Penetration

in that order, so Last Whisper is worth much less.
Just added that into the guide thanks


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

alsowikk

Senior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
should be:
a.reduction flat
a.reduction %
a.pen flat
a.pen %

then i believe after those it should be:
damage reduction flat
damage reduction %

essentially, reduction takes the form of a debuff, actually lowering your target's defensive values. next, penetration takes the form of ignoring values (i.e. you ignore what is left of their armor/m.resist). finally, whatever damage was calculated gets reduced by effects that universally reduce damage.

so, if nidalee has last whisper and the sunder mastery and uses improved exhaust on a 200 armor olaf that has 20 stacks of leviathan, has activated his ult (with 20 damage reduction), and has walked into a rank 5 nidalee trap, it would work as follows when she auto-attacks:

200 armor
-10 from i.exhaust = 190 armor
-76 from trap = 114 armor
-6 from sunder = 108 armor
-43 from last whisper = 65 armor

let's say her auto-attack would do 100 damage to olaf with only 65 armor--it would be further reduced as follows:
100 damage
-20 from ult = 80 damage
-12 from leviathan = 68 damage

the lesson to be learned is that nidalee's traps are awesome, and that you should get levithan instead of warmog's armor.

can I use this in the guide? Since it is MUCH better then any way I can explain it?

edit: of course you will be given credit for it


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Knucklz666

Junior Member

07-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by alsowikk View Post
Hextech gunblade: This will sound odd I know. Why not build the gunblade? It gives hybrids alot of stats and vamp off both abilities and auto attacks. Simply put this item is expensive as all heck. You are pumping in ridiculous amounts of gold for decent stats and a poor active. That being said it works decently on hybrids, it just can't really be seen has a staple item. It is ok as a luxury item but should NEVER be used as part of your core build. VERY situational item(like a hybrid has got the other 5 items and the game is nearly won situational)

Better options: Guinsoo's rageblade, and trinity force. Guinsoo's rageblade is a staple on most hybrids and should be gotten for it's stat effeciency(great for the costs) and the extra ability power and attack speed is always usefull when you start building stacks. Trinity Focre is good since it gives hybrids a bit of everything for s slightly higher costs then Hextech gunblade and for a smaller costs aswell. Both of these are great for any hybrids and can be considerred great items for many characters.

when to get: As a hybrid after you've finished your core build and have a pile of gold to spend. Otherwise it's not worth it in almost any situation

NOTE: The reason I said the attack speed from guinsoo's is usefull is since it's NOT the reason for getting the item. It's a small bonus that helps and the item would be good without it.


Being a fan of the gunblade (FF8 forever) and second maining jax for a while I actually ended up discovering that the moment I had my tab, my guinsoo, and my gunblade, I was near unstoppable. You really should put a disclaimer on this one specifically for Jax since it is of course in the extreme situational items, and to be honest he is really the only one I can see farming up that kind of money fast enough but also being the champ getting the most from it since he gains max health from both AD and AP (I apologize if someone mentioned this already, when I read this part I felt I had to respond before reading any farther) I would easily without a doubt say this is a core for jax.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NessOnett

Senior Member

07-19-2010

I'm gonna disagree on a couple things(obviously).

Philo Stone can be situational for two reasons:
1. Low level players that don't have the masteries and runes to support any regen but have characters that require mana and regen but don't have anything that will help them in the build.
2. Characters that don't get regen and stay out forever. Having flat health and mana increases don't do much when you run through your mana 10 times over between towning.

But more Importantly, Nashor's Tooth. It's a really really good item. Kog maw is an obvious choice, but any caster than gets semisteroids it helps. Examples are AP Cho, because Vorpal spikes give you +100 or more damage on your autoattacks; or Teric, because of his ult. Those characters need the ASPD, and AD doesn't help(from rageblade), you don't spam skills or attacks that much usually to hold 8 stacks, and those characters desperately need the CDR and the mana regen.