Sejuani and female champs

First Riot Post
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Grimwolff

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01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Blackass Jew View Post
If the character is solid, and is fun to play, looks will not matter.
Not entirely true. I will admit character design is a factor in the champions I choose to play. The only reason I didn't buy Cassio on her release was because I didn't find her art or model to be all that attractive.

If Riot releases a burly ugly muscular woman, I will most likely not purchase her. Say what you want, I'm a straight man who likes attractive woman.


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Innersist

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01-13-2012

The thing is that skimpy female champs are basically fan service, which does tend to transfer into sales. For instance, Lux in her original skin is certainly thin. but not bursting out of her armor. However, in a good many of her skins, her cup size is increased to make her more "marketable".

Just look at Poppy. She is an extremely powerful champion. However, I rarely see her in combat. I believe this is because she looks like ****. There is nothing stereotypically attractive about poppy. I believe this is why she is not played as frequently as she should.

All I'm saying is that attractiveness (male of female) has a lot to do with how often a champ is played because of the aesthetic value placed on them.


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Kizuna

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01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimwolff View Post
Not entirely true. I will admit character design is a factor in the champions I choose to play. The only reason I didn't buy Cassio on her release was because I didn't find her art or model to be all that attractive.

If Riot releases a burly ugly muscular woman, I will most likely not purchase her. Say what you want, I'm a straight man who likes attractive woman.
Say what you want, you are not the demographic that represents the entirety of LoL players.


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TheUlf

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Too many lonely nerds downvoting this thread.

+1 op, I agree.


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SmartAlec13

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01-13-2012

I dont think it is that big of a deal. Its not like the body types arent realistic, there are women who look like that. Same with the male characters, there are guys who look like tryndamere. Who cares?


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Weebos

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01-13-2012

I'm a straight male and I demand more hot men.

Also monsters. Give me more monsters.

I love variety in species and race in my games, Wow's silhouette character design philosophy is one that appeals to me.


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Aliete

Senior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
1) Bahahaha!

2) I'll see what I can do =)
Please actually try IronStylus there are actually alot of players who want this handsome male champion to come >_<


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Aliete

Senior Member

01-13-2012

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Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
there are definitely rioters that support the push for more 'hot guys' in league of legends.
Knowing that makes me so happy, even if it never happens just knowing that there are people in Riot who are like that gives me hope to keep wishing for it.


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Likaru

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01-13-2012

ill just tell you this.

In champions like that I would rather buy bundles in which a female champion provides various appealing designs to me like it was with Ahri. If you think females are being categorized as such, don't buy the bundles or don't play the game at all if such things offend you. If it doesn't offend you then I must ask why does it matter then?

Why not applause the models and art for Orianna, Poppy, Tristana, Shyvana, etc.?


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TheUlf

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I've yet to have time to read those articles but I shall do so when I get the chance.

Also.. don't make me get into how Leona's heels actually are a paragon of function and classy design!

Anywhoozle, funny thing is, when I was doing a bit of work on Sejuani, we made an effort to make sure she didn't look dainty. In the art spotlight you're looking at a very action-y pose which may make her diminish because that boar is just so ready to throttle you.

That being said, yes, often in the video game industry, and the entertainment industry, there is a "standardization" of female form. I'm as guilty of it as any other artist when designing. Leona is a tall curvy lady which in my mind is "idealized". We're artists, we like "ideal" and sometimes default to it. (REMEMBER! I'm keeping "Ideal" in QUOTES! "Ideal" is not an "Ideal" term for what I'm "Ideally" trying to explain) That isn't to say that our lexicon is or should be limited to a particular scope, but let's be honest, a lot of natural human tendency which is often hardwired into us makes us gravitate towards particular biological attributes. I'm not trying to defend that gravitation, but I am saying that we are many times inexorably drawn to it... no art pun intended.

Let's also consider something. Readability. In the game, the characters are fairly small, nyez? So, we do often I believe have to make sure we're making sure to make sure that the figure is readable as a girl or guy. How do we do this? Well, proportion, accentuation, exaggeration, etc. Want the feminine form to read in a game? Welp, guess what, it might have to be a bit more famine and/or stylized than usual to read at the proper distance and keep readable when moving. That's just making sure we cover the basics of simple silhouette recognition. If we make her too broad, you might mistake Sejuani for a male, that'd be, ya know, not what we want.

Now, that said, and I may be at bit too full of microwave mashed potatoes at this point, but I do have certain issues with certain champs and their body types. I do flinch here and there when I consider the logistics that certain clothing might entail. However, as an artist, as a gamer, I'm looking for something that's rewarding to my eye. Sometimes that might be a dynamic silhouette, sometimes maybe the nuanced movement of a character, possibly the hardwired biological aspect, or any other pleasing imagery. As a gamer and as an artist, I want a visual reward. That's a lot of what gaming is and art for that matter. Engagement -> Reward.

Particularly though, at least speaking for myself, I also want to know how that armor or lack thereof functions! But, what is the trade off? Do I think Sejuani might need to make a trip to Sports Chalet and get some heavy winter gear? Possibly.. BUT! I also want her to be wearing something more interesting than a Columbia snowboarding jacket and I also want her to read clearly when I play her. That's a whole lot in the equation.

There's trade-offs to everything, and sometimes we don't even know those trade-offs on a conscious level. If you saw Sejuani in a head to toe outfit, or heavily armor-clad, or maybe beefier, well, that actually presents a slew of other visual problems to work out. We then have problems with whether we could tell her gender or not. The boar (Let's take get a betting game going to see if you can guess the boar's name) might indicate, given another armor or outfit situation, that she's a guy. Thickening her up, while addressing how a chick could wield such a weapon comes at a risk of her looking like a male also. We wanted her to be fit and vicious. Adding particular types of clothing, mass, armor, etc might detract from that... also! You haven't seen all her skins yet! Maybe you'll find something cool in there! =D

Personally? I like the more "reasonably" clad gals, but hey, that's why I gravitate towards champs like Leona. But heck, while Sejuani has her own visual style, and unique challenges, I am not opposed to her being taken in the direction she has been. I think our goal is to provide a rewarding experience, sometimes we have to suspend our otherwise pesky disbelief and roll with it. Will we push limits in the future? Yes. Will we also work within pre-established motifs, structures, archetypes and the tendencies for the unconscious mind to latch onto particular tropes as long as we find the situation appropriate? Yes.

Regardless, I'm not sure if this is all making any sense. I'm pretty tired. Also, ya know. Mashed potatoes. Either way, I enjoy these discussions and I'd like to keep having them. There's a lot we go through over here when we design champs artistically and believe me, nothing you're saying hasn't been discussed or not thought over. In the end, we're having fun, and we hope you are too!
I dunno man, the folks over at blizzard seem to have gotten pretty decent at not insulting the female form.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/media/artwork/?view#/artwork-0097