Pantheon/Talon Bot, Meta beware.

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corallein

Senior Member

01-13-2012

This isn't entirely new. Goose ran Jarvan + Leona bot lane in a tournament game (forget which one), which shut down the enemy bot lane hard.

It's a situational pick. Pantheon + Talon is honestly worse than Jarvan + Leona because it has less range and less CC potential (especially post 6). That, and Leona works FAR better without farm than Talon or Pantheon.
It works best against shorter range carries (Caitlyn can outrange Pantheon and Talon pretty easily, and her trap is annoying), and against supports with less CC (not as effective against a support Janna or Alistar).
It also works way better at lower Elo where people are too stupid to realize that you're playing a kill-lane and they need to play very conservatively.


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Rg Toad

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Yeah in a draft they will spot it right away and if their smart build some CC because it sounds like your building full offense so they can just farm under their tower, and when you go to dive, just CC you and let the turret hit you forcing you to back off, and if they pull a jungler gank you have no way to heal quickly, or CC them hard and force them back, or speed increases to run


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Rg Toad

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by corallein View Post
This isn't entirely new. Goose ran Jarvan + Leona bot lane in a tournament game (forget which one), which shut down the enemy bot lane hard.

It's a situational pick. Pantheon + Talon is honestly worse than Jarvan + Leona because it has less range and less CC potential (especially post 6). That, and Leona works FAR better without farm than Talon or Pantheon.
It works best against shorter range carries (Caitlyn can outrange Pantheon and Talon pretty easily, and her trap is annoying), and against supports with less CC (not as effective against a support Janna or Alistar).
It also works way better at lower Elo where people are too stupid to realize that you're playing a kill-lane and they need to play very conservatively.
Leona is a supportive tank with hard CC


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Tyrang

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Leona + Jarvan is actually not much different from meta support + AD bot lane. The only difference is they replace ranged AD carry with tanky AD. And the situation is made more weird with Leona, which is not a popular support pick.

But the combo makes sense in the weirdest way. This two champs' skills are all cc related. So basically, they can chain their cc non-stop.

Still, it is not a double carry lane.


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Canadían

Senior Member

01-13-2012

Maybe in bronze/silver but a GOOD ad carry with a GOOD support and GOOD jungle will om-nom-nom on you.


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tzerg

Member

01-13-2012

interesting combo, i can definitely see how it works (went up against a vayne ashe lane recently that was surprisingly annoying). from what it sounds like though you are not dealing with very aggressive enemy junglers and the supports you are laneing against are not fully doing there job, since in this case they should be warding the side bushes as well if they are being used a lot by the enemy. I would also imagine a support like Taric with his armor buffs and stun would prove to be a bit of a challenge. anyways hope this combo keeps working for you guys, i love seeing the common meta turned on its head


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MegaBerryCrunch2

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Recruiter

01-13-2012

I never said it was dumb, just that I felt in most cases, it wouldn't work as well.


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corallein

Senior Member

01-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrang View Post
Leona + Jarvan is actually not much different from meta support + AD bot lane. The only difference is they replace ranged AD carry with tanky AD. And the situation is made more weird with Leona, which is not a popular support pick.
No, Leona + Jarvan is VERY different from a support + ranged AD carry and is much closer to a double melee carry lane.

It's also predicated on getting an early kill or big early damage and shutting down the enemy lane's farm. The only difference between Leona + Jarvan and Pantheon + Talon is that Leona requires far less farm, so instead of getting two underfed champions later you only have one. And if Leona does get fed... well, a fed Leona is actually pretty good.

The difference between having a non-farm support and a support in the duo lane is that it's far more reliable with a support. There simply aren't enough creeps to give sufficient farm to two champions in a single lane, which makes them highly reliant on getting kills for extra gold. This is especially true for super squishy melee champions like Talon and Pantheon - without farm, they have neither burst nor tankiness, so they end up just getting exploded without doing much.


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Parrots

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Senior Member

01-19-2012

In all honesty, it won't work out in higher ELO matches. A better combination would be Pantheon and AP Sion.


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Mystic Fists

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Senior Member

01-19-2012

This isn't a new combo, it's just a double bruiser lane o_O It's like the Garen + Taric of old... you're just giving up the Taric heal for some more damage output. There are quirky combos that can counter support + ranged ad at bot, otherwise the meta would be stuck there forever. However it is currently one of the most effective and efficient ways to handle a lane.

Also with even a modicum of common sense your lane combo wont work as most of the ranged ADs outrange you, so you'd have to put up with losing all your HP to autos before committing to a kill. Not to mention your bush strat is completely stopped by a ward, or their jungler coming to lane as if you're waiting in that forward bush you're not likely to escape in time.

Also, Vayne Ali combo fits current meta and is completely capable of stopping your combination.