Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lol intel lol View Post
first, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, i have some more questions:

1. With cho, is it ok going with teleport and flash?

2. with garen, when should i buy ad items and when should i buy health?

3. if im winning my lane with garen, should i keep pushing so that the enemy top cant farm or should i gank other lanes?

4. with garen, should i use flash or ghost, and exhaust or ignite?
1. Yes
2. buy AD caster item, such as brutalizer (don't upgrade to Yommu) then get some resist. Aegis will be a strong item for health.
3. Depend on the situation, if the other lanes are not winning, it is never wrong to help them
4. Personally I prefer flash and ignite, but there are also good use to ghost and exhaust, up to the team comp and lane match up,


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Oyxl

Senior Member

11-06-2012

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Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Alright, I think you are off on the idea.

Lets say if you have Nunu support, he only has a movement and as buff and movement as debuff. but that doesn't make him a bad support because bottom lane is hugely affected by both stats.

Lulu, on the other hand, has way more potential (she probably has the most potential out of all support anyway, except the lack of sustain).

Now, if you really want me to say, I will say Lee Sin support is stronger during early game. He can reduce the person's movement and attack speed just like Nunu, he has a shield for both players and can often jump on wards or minions for a surprise engage, Q does decent amount of damage and ultimate can counter most AoE ultimate.

Now if you do a comparison between them, obviously Lulu is more of a real support type. Her ultimate will also give HP and a slow on the target, which is definitely strong in any situation. However, you can't ignore the fact that Lee's ultimate can also be used to kick away scary bruiser such as Jax, or kick away AoE ultimate such as Fiddle, Kennen and more, these champions will generally not be stop by a Lulu ultimate.

As for other bruiser, you can also think about J4. Passive armor aura just like Taric, but he also has attack speed aura. His level 2 knock up combine with his passive can create a lot of trouble to the enemy, especially before the sustain is up for Soraka, Taric, Sona. (Soraka's cooldown compare the heal is insanely low, Taric's heal will split into two guys, and Sona's heal mana cost is stupidly high for the amount healed)
I do understand, don't get me wrong. I could see, for example, Orianna be built 50/50 support/AP, or even full CDR/Support, but she would lose her position as a damage dealer. The same goes, imho, for any bruiser. Lee could probably be built into a Support, but to get the CDR to be able to actively play that role, you'll sacrifice stats damage wise.

While I sincerely agree that a champion that doesn't have the tag "support" can still support, from my point of view, you're still exchanging one support for the other. And that mainly comes from the firm believe that support skills should have a low enough cooldown to use as often as every 4 seconds during any teamfight, which is often not true for most bruisers, with CD's around 10 to 12 seconds. And investing in CDR, means losing the majority of your damage potential.


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ExecutionerKen

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11-06-2012

nah, you don't really have to go support. Even if you are running a bruiser "support" you can potentially build one gp10 (HoG) then just play like a regular bruiser, but more counter jungle involvement as well as ganking people.

The 4 seconds cooldown thing is rather impossible for most to achieve. Taric's stun cd is longer than that. Soraka's heal is on a long cooldown. Blitz's grab is on a long cooldown, and not to mention about Alistar and Zyra, both have rather long cooldown on their skills.

There are few exception, of course. lulu's slow is on 6-7 seconds cooldown most of the time, Nunu's snowball is also on a low cooldown, but you are asking for too much.

In some cases, Bruiser's 10-12 seconds cooldown will often pay off with stronger abilities. For example, J4's E>Q combo, will not only knock up the enemy, but also reduce armor, as well as applying armor and AS aura buff, the aura buff also stays for a relatively long time, which making it very worth its cost, and thus can outshine some support ability such as Sona's Q aura.


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Oyxl

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
nah, you don't really have to go support. Even if you are running a bruiser "support" you can potentially build one gp10 (HoG) then just play like a regular bruiser, but more counter jungle involvement as well as ganking people.

The 4 seconds cooldown thing is rather impossible for most to achieve. Taric's stun cd is longer than that. Soraka's heal is on a long cooldown. Blitz's grab is on a long cooldown, and not to mention about Alistar and Zyra, both have rather long cooldown on their skills.

There are few exception, of course. lulu's slow is on 6-7 seconds cooldown most of the time, Nunu's snowball is also on a low cooldown, but you are asking for too much.

In some cases, Bruiser's 10-12 seconds cooldown will often pay off with stronger abilities. For example, J4's E>Q combo, will not only knock up the enemy, but also reduce armor, as well as applying armor and AS aura buff, the aura buff also stays for a relatively long time, which making it very worth its cost, and thus can outshine some support ability such as Sona's Q aura.
I sadly only encountered J4 once so far, but I'm intruiged. I might try a few of your suggestions once I get to lvl 30. Right now I want to play what I know I can play, so I can get to 30 faster :P

But my Q CDR on Lulu is at 4.XX seconds @ endgame. Although I understand that you don't get to go all the way there in ranked, all that often.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

11-11-2012

Too lazy to look at each thread, post them here


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

b


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Bad Player

Senior Member

11-15-2012

What are your thoughts on Chalice of Harmony on Veigar?
(When is it a good/bad idea to build it, or is it never/always a good idea, etc etc.)


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ExecutionerKen

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11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadPlayer6 View Post
What are your thoughts on Chalice of Harmony on Veigar?
(When is it a good/bad idea to build it, or is it never/always a good idea, etc etc.)
With the nerf on DFG, Chalice becomes a great item on Veigar, due to being able to build it into Athene for CDR. Veigar needs that CDR to spam his Q, while the chalice/ athene provides enough mana regen for him to constantly have mana to spam the abilities. The MR also help him from being burst down by aggressive mid laners.


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Bad Player

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Thanks

(I built it when playing with my friends earlier, and they gave me some flak for it... Wanted to get a high-elo player's opinion)


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iDpark

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Ken,

I think I main top. But I just got crushed a couple games ago, by an 1800 s2 player.

I know how to last hit. Usually 150 by 20 mins or 100 by 15 mins, usually both. (Could be better)
I know to push/freeze lanes, last hitting under tower. (not perfect, but decent.)
I know counter picks.
I know lane matchups. (becasue I've played almost all champions)
I know to counterjungle or push if I see jungler bot. (map awareness, working on it)
I know how to counter build (this one's easy)
I know how to tank for my team, initiate when I can and peel for my carries. (this one's an ongoing process, but I'd say I'm decent at it.
I also think I can make decent calls. Dragon/baron when enemy team down 1-3 people, push towers if 4 people died or ace.
(In general, cause if support and tank jungler alive, I'll push towers hard)

Is there anything I'm missing?
I can't put my finger on it, but I think I have a problem. I was at 1300, the highest I've ever been, and I can't seem to play well.

Do I just need to improve every one of these aspects?
I feel as though I can't utilize all of what I know.

I couldn't find a replay (Deleted em all a couple days back, and either have jungled or won top easy.)


K, I've been jungling lots lately, nobody jungles.
I usually jungle amumu or malphite if not banned.
Then I jungle mao or skarner depends if they have lots of aoe or there is a lategame carry I need to take out of the fight.
Should I learn to jungle anyone else?

Unrelated question,
What is your opinion on a nidalee bot support?
(I run CV/flash, go philo and tear, and then straight ap.)
Max Q, one in w, max heal second.
I only play this with ezreal, or cait. (Ult + CV)

I think this would work out well versus an agressive lane combos, or lane combos without sustain or crappy sustain. Meaning every lane except a soraka,
And nobody plays soraka at 1200 elo.

What's your opinion on nid support?