Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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NamelessFish

Member

10-21-2012

ooo thanky, didnt think of pink ward.

Though your comments on 2-3 wards for mid. I just dont feel like thats enough. In the few minutes between that first broken turret and trying to break the second one, they try to gank me. a lot. And they only come from the river 1/3 the time or so, thus leaving me without warning, which is basicly free gold for the enemy. Having at least 4 wards up at that time really helps as the majority of the ganks come from their jungle at that point as im overextended. I dont consider placing a target on my back such a bad thing, as I can anticipate it and use it to various advantages, but still. Thoughts? Also worth noting i always grab BoM after archangel to help escape ganks and to switch lanes quicker.

Also, regarding escapes: I wouldnt discount ulti turrets+grenade as a means for escape. Someone who can lead well(Me :3) Can easily land a direct hit whenever they want to, specially if someone is chasing(faster the target, easier the hit), meaning a 1.5 second stun which very often means the difference between escape and death for me, granted the ice turrets usually do more harm then good cause of the setup time, its great if i see an enemy gank squad coming...and theres actually a way out. And of course theres just some people i cant get away from, but still.

One more thing~ I do indeed try to lead and instruct my team on how to secure team objectives every single game(with trolls i just use them as decoys and dont waste my time,while instructing the nice members of the team), but Iv never seen anyone else do this. Not once. Over 200 normal games and not one single person has even tried. The most i hear is "Ok lets go steal baron/break inhib/gank them"(that one is rare, just tends to happen) Does this change in ranked?

Im sure ill think of more. Ill jump on your chat sometime. What chat room exactly? where? I saw info for it the other day...cant find it now ;w;
~On the quest for 1000 games with mr afro man :3
~Random thought: Poor Tryndamere trying to kill me by himself....he'll never win,xD


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

10-22-2012

Good useage of 2-3 wards is more than enough to cover one lane, and you should be able to escape ganks with them

BoM is decent on Heimer as it allows you to go between lane to lane much faster, however be sure that you will build a voidstaff as soon as the enemy build MR.

Grenade is not a reliable escape tool unless you pop your ultimate to speed it up, and turrets don't stop a strong burst caster fast enough


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상자상자상자

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Hey Ken, trying to hit gold this week or at least learn some mechanics.

What mechanics and skills separate a Plat player from a say 1300 ELO player? Please be specific so I know what to work on.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LanguidSquid View Post
I do not want to request too much, but over the course of the last 3 days I have read about the first 2/3 of this thread and found it most informative. Regarding actually carrying games, and especially directing my team, I find it extremely difficult to get people to respond regardless of how well I am individually performing. If you would be so extremely kind as to review this game of me playing Tristana and instruct me as to how I could perform any role more completely I would be most grateful.

Furthermore, earlier in this thread you mentioned that you were able to take the responsibility of coaching people, I would be most interested in learning more about this offer. Also, at one point I read the name of 'your' chat channel, but cannot rediscover it, would you please repost?
I just went over the replay, and I really want to point out your playing style (laning and skill level order)

First off, you are right to get explosive shot and rocket jump level up first, as they allow you to do the huge burst especially when you reach level 6, and it was right for you to take heal since singed doesn't give you any sustain

However, you guys made some major mistakes

1. You don't poke enough with E

2. You guys have no bush control

3. You need to sneak in an autoattack after E

4. Don't stay in lane with just 50hp, it is far too risky against Caitlyn and Lulu.

The enemy Caitlyn made a bunch of mistakes to be serious, including not getting traps up til level 4, doesn't poke enough with her long range, and didn't do double golem. You should have taken advantages over those facts and stomp Caitlyn with your high poke.

Also, for leveling your skill, keep in mind that if you choose to max out W and E first, you will not have your attack speed steroid, which will make your mid and mid-late game suffer a lot until you hit level 18, consider leaving E at level 3 and W at level 2 if you want those early burst, while finish leveling up Q after getting your ultimate. You really shouldn't be using rocket jump and explosive shot by mid game as you can start being burst down by the enemy caster or there are just too much cc for you to jump in,


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NamelessFish

Member

10-22-2012

Iv actually never popped ult to speed up the grenade. Im happy and very precise with it at its regular speed o.o

Also, i dont pop turrets for damage, i throw em out so the enemy can either take 2-4 seconds to kill em or get the slow effect. Either way it gives me those few seconds of distraction agianst a gank squad that i need to escape.

And about the Void Staff: I kinda think this unnessecary, because i dont consider myself a damage dealer by any means. I consider myself an off-support. Someone who is more non-team fight utility then anything else. I tend to run instead of fight about 90% of anyone who even comes within 5000 range of me,xD unless its an ADC, but they rarely ever build enough MR to make much difference to warrant the 2k on a void staff. Though in all fairness with all the gold i get from minion kills I might should consider it.....well i usually grab tear of goddess, boots, blasting wand~archangel staff(wards/pots when nessecary), then BoM, then zhonya's, then usually the games almost over, if not, a rabadons if they arnt tank heavy, and if they are a DFG, then i get a rabadons/DFG(whichever i chose not to get a second ago). Mostly i stack this AP simply to defend myself and deter people from just mopping the floor with me, as it provides enough burst to deter all but the determined attackers, but even then the AP is purely for a deterent. Id go tanky but it just doesnt ever work.....

Also worth noting, as Iv never done ranked, is that Iv never come across anyone who heavily stacked MR AND would actually bother to try and hinder me in any way(only came across a few who stacked it, and they never bothered with me so it wasnt a problem)....something i find funny is that its always the ADC that comes to kill me.....even though i have a 3 second blind on a 5.4 second cooldown....and a zhonya....

And another thing Iv been curious about. I keep hearing horror stories about how horrible Ranked play is. From what I hear about it and what iv seen in normals, it seems 1300- ELO seems to have worse players then normal o.O and far more trolls. Would that be accurate? If so i think ill just stick to normals. Only reason id ever play ranked is to escape trolls....and from all iv seen on forums it seems theyre more prevelant in ranked

Also, where do i find this chat of yours. I cant find where you mention it. Only that the chat room name is Element Zero ;w;


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Thorston13

Senior Member

10-23-2012

How do you beat a Darius top and with who?
I got quite a few solo top picks such as jayce,vlad, Olaf, Riven, etc.
I just can't seem to beat him since he can build tanky and despite this do damage, has endless harass and seems to just need a kill to never ever need more.
So yeah, how?


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessFish View Post
Iv actually never popped ult to speed up the grenade. Im happy and very precise with it at its regular speed o.o

Also, i dont pop turrets for damage, i throw em out so the enemy can either take 2-4 seconds to kill em or get the slow effect. Either way it gives me those few seconds of distraction agianst a gank squad that i need to escape.

And about the Void Staff: I kinda think this unnessecary, because i dont consider myself a damage dealer by any means. I consider myself an off-support. Someone who is more non-team fight utility then anything else. I tend to run instead of fight about 90% of anyone who even comes within 5000 range of me,xD unless its an ADC, but they rarely ever build enough MR to make much difference to warrant the 2k on a void staff. Though in all fairness with all the gold i get from minion kills I might should consider it.....well i usually grab tear of goddess, boots, blasting wand~archangel staff(wards/pots when nessecary), then BoM, then zhonya's, then usually the games almost over, if not, a rabadons if they arnt tank heavy, and if they are a DFG, then i get a rabadons/DFG(whichever i chose not to get a second ago). Mostly i stack this AP simply to defend myself and deter people from just mopping the floor with me, as it provides enough burst to deter all but the determined attackers, but even then the AP is purely for a deterent. Id go tanky but it just doesnt ever work.....

Also worth noting, as Iv never done ranked, is that Iv never come across anyone who heavily stacked MR AND would actually bother to try and hinder me in any way(only came across a few who stacked it, and they never bothered with me so it wasnt a problem)....something i find funny is that its always the ADC that comes to kill me.....even though i have a 3 second blind on a 5.4 second cooldown....and a zhonya....

And another thing Iv been curious about. I keep hearing horror stories about how horrible Ranked play is. From what I hear about it and what iv seen in normals, it seems 1300- ELO seems to have worse players then normal o.O and far more trolls. Would that be accurate? If so i think ill just stick to normals. Only reason id ever play ranked is to escape trolls....and from all iv seen on forums it seems theyre more prevelant in ranked

Also, where do i find this chat of yours. I cant find where you mention it. Only that the chat room name is Element Zero ;w;
Heimer benefits a lot from Abyssal scepter as people need to get closes to him and his turrets to damage him. So if you want a bit more MR and the enemy doesn't have enough for Voidstaff, it is a good choice.

At later level, when people start dodging your E, you will start needing the speed it up with your ultimate, and using your ultimate also allow you to fire 5 rockets instead of 3, but yea it is situational

My chat room is Element Zero, you will see me there if I am online, if you don't...well I am offline XD


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorston13 View Post
How do you beat a Darius top and with who?
I got quite a few solo top picks such as jayce,vlad, Olaf, Riven, etc.
I just can't seem to beat him since he can build tanky and despite this do damage, has endless harass and seems to just need a kill to never ever need more.
So yeah, how?
The key to beat Darius is often two things
1. Harass
2. His lack of escape

What this means is that if you can keep harassing him, due to his lack of sustain in his kit, he will be forced to go back

At the same time, because he lacks an escape, junglers can often gank him if he is playing aggressively, take advantage of that

Out of your champion pick, Jayce and Vlad can easily beat a darius, you just need to keep poking him while not going full in engage until you can drop him in a full combo.


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Thorston13

Senior Member

10-23-2012

I'll keep that in mind, thank you Ken. As i've read a lot of this thread now ill just say it oud loud:
BUMP =3


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTDerpaaa View Post
Hey Ken, trying to hit gold this week or at least learn some mechanics.

What mechanics and skills separate a Plat player from a say 1300 ELO player? Please be specific so I know what to work on.
1. The control of the lane

If you are playing AP mid, harass the enemy when they are trying to get the CS, one skill and one to two autoattacks each time he gets the cs, and you will soon find yourself burning all of his hp potion by 4-5 minutes into the game (either he recall to lose gold and experience or he will die)

2. Making good use of your advantage

Most people doesn't understand when should they push on, or when will they force a fight. One of the best example will be sieging the enemy so that they can't recall after you went back to buy. This is especially important after you just hit level 6. If you are two doran ahead of the enemy, you will most likely pressure the enemy so much that not only they lose their cs, but also leave the turret open to take huge amount of damage until the jungler comes and hold it for them. Yet then you know the position of the enemy jungler, which allows your team to either do objective, counter jungle, or gank without being worried about counter gank

3. Bad supports

This is a serious issue, especially in my eyes since I am a support main player. Most supports are really passive, and in 1300s, if your support is not Blitz or Leona, your lane will almost certainly be 1.5 vs 1.5, (the support only count as half). This however, is only changeable if you are the support player.

Hints: Standing behind the AD carry means the AD carry will take hit first, don't do that unless you are using a really passive support (Soraka most likely, but she stills have bananas and silence)

4. Shut down enemy carry or jungler

Some junglers requires certain buff in order to jungle effectively or gank. For example, Amumu needs blue, while Shyvana needs her red buff for both ganking and counter jungle. Same thing to certain AP mid. If you take away blue buff from Orianna, Gragas, Anivia, and Ahri. You will see a much easier laning phase for the player, and also limiting their ability to roam and gank.

Late game, if you can take away red buff from the enemy ad carry, you can often catch them much easier. Same thing with taking their blue buff. If Anivia doesn't have her blue buff, she will most likely run out of mana unless she built a huge mana base item and has athene, which will limit her ability to do damage compare to normal builds.