Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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Duhizy

Senior Member

09-28-2012

basically iv been trying to get better at vayne by learning how to dodge all possible skill shots that may come my way with tumble,flash etc so that i can better learn to outplay my enemies and iv found some issues with both karthus and cassio. Its like this, if i dont dodge their q's and abilities they outdamage me 1v1 and if i stop to attack then the cooldown on both cassio and karthuses abilities are short enough to hit me if i stop even for a sec to attack, if i get to close to karthus in an attempt to dodge Q's he uses wall and defile to trap me and im screwed, a good cassio will ult me in the direction of my tumble will end after the first q and even just the slow is enough to land all abilites.

I'm trying to figure out how i can fight these 2 and win without dying while we both has similar equivalent ad/ap builds, can u help my figure out when the best time to flash is against each and maybe a way to bait out abilities so that i can tumble the Q's easier.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
basically iv been trying to get better at vayne by learning how to dodge all possible skill shots that may come my way with tumble,flash etc so that i can better learn to outplay my enemies and iv found some issues with both karthus and cassio. Its like this, if i dont dodge their q's and abilities they outdamage me 1v1 and if i stop to attack then the cooldown on both cassio and karthuses abilities are short enough to hit me if i stop even for a sec to attack, if i get to close to karthus in an attempt to dodge Q's he uses wall and defile to trap me and im screwed, a good cassio will ult me in the direction of my tumble will end after the first q and even just the slow is enough to land all abilites.

I'm trying to figure out how i can fight these 2 and win without dying while we both has similar equivalent ad/ap builds, can u help my figure out when the best time to flash is against each and maybe a way to bait out abilities so that i can tumble the Q's easier.
1. Karthus and Cass both uses mainly Q to do damage. Most players have the habit of dropped the skill SLIGHTY behind the enemy. Which means if you have the guts you can turn back and kite (not recommended unless you know Cass ult is down though)

2. Kathus's wall is parallel to his position, even though it is long as hell, if you can prevent walking into his wall once, you can probably avoid the rest.

3. Karthus's q cooldown can be easily predictable after his first shot, you can tell a friend to keep spamming karthus q and listen to the sound. Most karthus players will spam it whenever it is off the cooldown, what this means is that you can often know the time they will cast the Q, and walk/ tumble to dodge it.

4. If Cass fail his Q and didn't lane the W on you, her dps is ****ed for 3 seconds, make good use of that time to either push her away or just straight up kill her.


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Raolan

Senior Member

09-28-2012

How to carry to gold from 1300? What's the difference between a 1300 player and a 1500 player?

Also, recommended champions for said carrying/getting other lanes fed?

Singed is one I've heard of.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

09-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raolan View Post
How to carry to gold from 1300? What's the difference between a 1300 player and a 1500 player?

Also, recommended champions for said carrying/getting other lanes fed?

Singed is one I've heard of.
Singed is one of the best counter to Malphite imo. so if you ever see the enemy picked Malphite, feel free to pick Singed. Singed can just run and poison all minions while Malphite try to last hit at the turret. (Or tank them and probably going to lose a lot of health)

Now on the other hand, a lot of champions are good for carrying around 1300 to 1500. Specifically the ones that do very well from early game and still scale decently into late game. With no absolute weaknesses.

The new remade Kat is really powerful in mid lane. As she now doesn't need to use killer instinct to get damage reduction on E, she can always shoupo on her minions and reduce the enemy harass damage. Meanwhile, Q -> W is big damage for a lot of squishy ap mid.

Ahri is an absolute terror if played right. Maxing Q will be better if you can land skill shots, otherwise, maxing W will still do decent damage. She also spell vamp really well especially with her fox fire since they all count as single target spell, and you can also get Rylai for even stronger slow.

Jungle wise I recommend Skarner, Nocturne and Jax. Skarner's grab can be game changing, while Nocturne and Jax can go pretty tanky and still do damage. They are all primary focus on getting enemy carries and often decide the outcome of team fight.

Last but not least, my favorite. Kennen. As long as you have ultimate, your team fight is one of the strongest in the game. Damage wise it might be less than Fiddle, but you can use W and the skill apply stunS. Big deeps and big stuns.


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Raolan

Senior Member

09-28-2012

Thanks!

I just had a game with two 1800s smurfs and noticed that unlike most people at my elo, they knew to focus on getting towers/dragon and could tell when it was safe to push, even with 100 HP left.
Most of the time I try to convince people it's safe to push top after a successful gank even though they're low, because I just saw the jungler bottom lane and mid is dead, and I get completely ignored.

I've tried Jax and definitely agree. You can build heavy tank, buy a triforce and rageblade or gunblade, and towers just melt in front of you.


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AsianDiction

Member

09-29-2012

Hey Ken,

How do YOU leash as Fizz if no purple or blue side if you can't get other lanes to help out? I have been using ignite recently as I don't want to get close and E over.

I recently have been facerolling with him, against Leblanc, Brand and Ahri etc. Is it my skill or is he just designed to destroy those champs? I get he has mobility against skillshots, who shouldn't I pick him against?

At times to get close to enemy's, I use my E to get in range and just finish them. Is this alright? Or should I always start with W then Q and use E to escape just in case? What do you start in mid lane too, what skill? W for last hitting I get since I get pushed early on cause I can't CS without getting harassed easily.

Final Question, Is it bad to do a "power leash" for your jungler? I try and help them out more so they are more likely to be happy and therefore snowball other lanes. But I lose a bit of exp so I'm wondering is it a situational thing or when you can? (The going back and forth in the bush to confuse the golem)


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

09-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianDiction View Post
Hey Ken,

How do YOU leash as Fizz if no purple or blue side if you can't get other lanes to help out? I have been using ignite recently as I don't want to get close and E over.

I recently have been facerolling with him, against Leblanc, Brand and Ahri etc. Is it my skill or is he just designed to destroy those champs? I get he has mobility against skillshots, who shouldn't I pick him against?

At times to get close to enemy's, I use my E to get in range and just finish them. Is this alright? Or should I always start with W then Q and use E to escape just in case? What do you start in mid lane too, what skill? W for last hitting I get since I get pushed early on cause I can't CS without getting harassed easily.

Final Question, Is it bad to do a "power leash" for your jungler? I try and help them out more so they are more likely to be happy and therefore snowball other lanes. But I lose a bit of exp so I'm wondering is it a situational thing or when you can? (The going back and forth in the bush to confuse the golem)
Usually you will have to use E to leash, I don't recommend using ignite as it is a huge DPS cut off from your combo. Your W passive and ignite often catch people off guard.

Fizz is designed to destroy ap mid that requires skillshots, and the one that isn't spammable. So in this case, Brand and LB will surely be counter by Fizz, but not Ahri. Ahri can often dodge your ultimate, and have a lot easier time by just using foxfire for main damage skill, rather than her Q.

There are very few champions that you shouldn't pick Fizz to play against. Personally I won't pick him against Zyra. Just because she can put the plants right on her and you will take a lot of damage by just jumping in. You probably won't want to pick him when the enemy is Morde as well, if he went with a bit of MR, there is a high chance he can take your full combo and not dead. By then he should be in the upper hand by just turning it around with all the skills.

Heavy leash or "No-smite" leash is generally needed on junglers which are either SLOW or good at COUNTER Jungling. Although you can do the same thing to fast junglers. If you are planning on heavy leashing someone. Never do more than 2 autoattacks if you are from mid lane. A melee creep in mid lane will die if you try to get your 3rd in. Instead, ask top or bottom to do the leash. If it is at the upper jungle, you can also ask the support to do a few hits if he can, but generally it is not recommended.


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Lethadind

Senior Member

09-29-2012

I have a question. When playing ADC and they have a particularly CC/focus heavy team (in my case I was playing Ezreal and they had Malphite/Hecarim. Every teamfight they'd simply wait until I got close enough and chain cc-ult me, then wreck me behind my team. Malphite had something like 500 armor and 250 MR, so they couldn't burst him down fast enough before he killed me), how do you deal with that?

I tried staying out of teamfights until they blew the ults but BOTH would simply wait until I came close enough. They shut me out one way or the other. We ended up winning because they missed me on our last push, so I was able to dish out damage to the ADC (I was still more fed than their Vayne), and shut out the AP Carry (LeBlanc, I think). We aced them and pushed for the victory. We had one nexus turret down though, so whichever team aced the other basically won that game.

What should I have done? My teammates blamed me for dying but I sorta feel like it was also on them to protect me and try to peel malphite/hecarim (one OR the other, I coulda solo'd one of them, but both together I was no match) off of me. We had Jayce, Sona, Anivia, and Skarner - all capable of peeling and all had hard cc, but I'd get wrecked every teamfight.

So, was it indeed my fault, if it was, what should I have done? If it wasn't my fault, how would you deal with teammates who won't peel or interrupt for you?

EDIT: My two cents on the Fizz question (I play him a lot). In lower Elos he DOES counter Ahri, simply because they're too stupid to dodge his ult, and everything else in his kit destroys her, so especially pre-6. Also, he's countered by champions with hard CC. It disrupts his QW combo while they wreck his face. If Ahri's fast enough she can also pull this off, but champs like Pantheon/Sion mid (it happens), Ryze - if he's smart enough to back away, Kennen - if he is constantly keeping charges on him, etc. Not trying to steal your thunder, Ken, hope it's okay I answered this!


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Ethri

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

I hope you don't mind me quoting you but... I love Lulu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Worth mentioning: I maxed out Q on Lulu, compare to the regular maxing E path, for the increase of duration of slow and damage purpose.
I noticed quite a few people in higher elos (and with higher Lulu win rate) max Q first on Lulu. This leaves her W or E importance. After I switched to maxing Q first for harass I haven't been able to save people from skill shots that her E would normally provide. On the other hand her W duration is very important to stopping assassins/ gap-closers from destroying your carry (or boosting your ap carry).

I was wondering from an analytic perspective if it is more useful to max a pseudo-fear or a shield assuming you already have max slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Note to self: Lulu takes too much awareness on everything to play...get yourself some energy drink before starting the game.
I must know the details of why you said this. ^.^

@Lethadind Just remember that Hecarim and Malphite ultimates are skill shots. Just like the fact that Ahri "usually" can dodge Fizz ulti, Ezreal has his E. So if you know they are going to ult, try to save your E to dodge it. Easier said than done.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

09-30-2012

I pref going with slow first, then usually shield so that you can save a lot of people with your ultimate, then finally maxing out W

Usually you really need need to max out W first or second, just cause you don't need to.