Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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Kavrae

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Lately I've noticed a fair amount of team compositions making use of a double WotA strategy with a classic mid and tanky AP top (or jungle). I've been wondering why I don't see this done with Zeke's Herald on the top bruiser and AD carry.

The life steal is 8% lower than the spell vamp, but doesn't the HP bonus and lower cost make up for it?

What about using both, with Zeke on a top bruiser and AD carry, then WotA on an AP mid and jungling Amumu? Is this viable, or just a waste of the carry's gold?


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavrae View Post
Lately I've noticed a fair amount of team compositions making use of a double WotA strategy with a classic mid and tanky AP top (or jungle). I've been wondering why I don't see this done with Zeke's Herald on the top bruiser and AD carry.

The life steal is 8% lower than the spell vamp, but doesn't the HP bonus and lower cost make up for it?

What about using both, with Zeke on a top bruiser and AD carry, then WotA on an AP mid and jungling Amumu? Is this viable, or just a waste of the carry's gold?
It is cost effective, however, the slot is too important and the money is much better if put into some major item such as IE or BT before you try to build the Zeke


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DCMagic

Member

05-22-2012

I mean strategically using the grass to wait and attack when there is an advantage particularly along the three lanes


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Duhizy

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Is it true that some champs only work at specific elos? ex: i can play master yi jungle at 1400 and play a split push strategy while getting into a team fight at the last min to get three kills and with the game this way as i have done many times;however, when i tried this in a game i qued with a 700 elo guy and i wasnt able to split push because at 700 elo they engage 2 v 5 and think they had a chance and they just take our base before i can get there, also master yi isnt good in team fights so this is pretty bad.

Im sure had i played as any ad carry i could snowball a lane extremely hard and end the game at 20 min because winning a game with such a elo level difference as karthus mid or cait bot is pretty easy considering the difference of mechanical ability and game knowledge;however, i know for a fact i would lose ever game at that elo if i played alistar jungle.

Have you ever seen a case where someone had no problem winning higher elo games and they had trouble carrying a team at half their elo? sure if i wanted to i could play any carry, get 10 kills in lane and carry hard but why cant that be done with yi at low elo vs high.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
Is it true that some champs only work at specific elos? ex: i can play master yi jungle at 1400 and play a split push strategy while getting into a team fight at the last min to get three kills and with the game this way as i have done many times;however, when i tried this in a game i qued with a 700 elo guy and i wasnt able to split push because at 700 elo they engage 2 v 5 and think they had a chance and they just take our base before i can get there, also master yi isnt good in team fights so this is pretty bad.

Im sure had i played as any ad carry i could snowball a lane extremely hard and end the game at 20 min because winning a game with such a elo level difference as karthus mid or cait bot is pretty easy considering the difference of mechanical ability and game knowledge;however, i know for a fact i would lose ever game at that elo if i played alistar jungle.

Have you ever seen a case where someone had no problem winning higher elo games and they had trouble carrying a team at half their elo? sure if i wanted to i could play any carry, get 10 kills in lane and carry hard but why cant that be done with yi at low elo vs high.
Any champion can be good depend on the player, the problem is that most people doesn't understand how to work with the odd picks, such as Orianna mid, AP maokai etc.

There are many champions who can work in other role that is really uncommon (AD kennen for example) but the fact that your teammates will not know how to work with you will remain the same, thus why there are some carry just doesn't work in some ELO.

There is a 2k+ AD Orianna player from UK, but I doubt it will work at lower ELO, lets say 1500, because none of his teammate will be taken his CC and speed buff into account. While even fewer players understand how to fully use the ball to the full advantage.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMagic View Post
I mean strategically using the grass to wait and attack when there is an advantage particularly along the three lanes
..............That type of question is mostly depend on skill, not something that I can answer.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
Any champion can be good depend on the player, the problem is that most people doesn't understand how to work with the odd picks, such as Orianna mid, AP maokai etc.

There are many champions who can work in other role that is really uncommon (AD kennen for example) but the fact that your teammates will not know how to work with you will remain the same, thus why there are some carry just doesn't work in some ELO.

There is a 2k+ AD Orianna player from UK, but I doubt it will work at lower ELO, lets say 1500, because none of his teammate will be taken his CC and speed buff into account. While even fewer players understand how to fully use the ball to the full advantage.
so would u suggest the sticking to the basics at lower elo and just taking advantage of the fact that you can just outplay them? lol this game must suck for lower elo players if they cant play strong viable picks because they are "odd" ie karma mid or whatthemooses's jungle fizz


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhizy View Post
so would u suggest the sticking to the basics at lower elo and just taking advantage of the fact that you can just outplay them? lol this game must suck for lower elo players if they cant play strong viable picks because they are "odd" ie karma mid or whatthemooses's jungle fizz
That is the reason for most of the QQ threads.

Many people are really hating on odd picks and consider them troll picks. I don't have those kinds of problems but in the end, you should make the life easier for your teammates in ranked.


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Top Rinzler

Member

05-22-2012

Have you had to play against a Viktor that dominated a game? I've been midding as Viktor and find his damage output after the 10 min mark to be absurd. He does a TON of damage after feeding mid. Any good advice as to the best ways to utilize a Viktor for team fights? Best ways to mid against counters with him (ie playing against Morgana/Lux/Kennen)?


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrity22 View Post
Have you had to play against a Viktor that dominated a game? I've been midding as Viktor and find his damage output after the 10 min mark to be absurd. He does a TON of damage after feeding mid. Any good advice as to the best ways to utilize a Viktor for team fights? Best ways to mid against counters with him (ie playing against Morgana/Lux/Kennen)?
Viktor? Yes, there are some really good Viktor 1900+, however, there is not much advice to him. The timing and landing those skill shots is all there is for Viktor, thus why it is really hard to play him for most lower ELO player, he does have a high skill cap.

I don't think there is any "hard counter", but Kennen can usually autoattack and lighting surge his way to lower Viktor's health a lot.