Help thread for players, answer by 1800s.

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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Sassycat View Post
Yeah but in Orianna's case if you have AS, you want more AP because sacrificing space for AD isn't as effective. Also from what I've seen, from the nerfs to q and possible buffs to AA range (i forget if they did or not, it just seems like they have) i find that when i am within range for my spells i can AA as well without too much movement. So then the problem becomes the building defence instead of glass cannon because i built nashors. So i've always found i do substantial damage with my build, but maybe it's because people are dumb, which is why I ask about it. I usually go (not in this exact order) RoA, Deathcap, Void staff, Nashors and zhonyas, replacing Nashors with Rylais if I'm up against a team i need the slow for or if i need more health or if i can't AA kite (Udyr focusing me I'd go nashors, Talon focusing i would go rylais). Void staff i have replaced with Arcangels before, but I'm thinking replacing it with abyssals could work to (in the event the enemy team doesn't build mag res).

So yeah new question, is my build bad? I don't want the standard build from solomid.net or something, maybe an explanation, short or detailed, that explains why i should or should not have an item. Thx for the help btw. ^.^
RoA, Deathcap, Void staff, Nashors and zhonyas, Rylai
(These are the items that I saw you mentioned, I will go over them)

Depend on your style and team comp, everything but Nashors can be built

However, there are some requirement before you should build them

1. RoA, only build it when you can farm it quick, or need the HP and mana, this item is consider cost effective but cripple you early and mid game

2. Deathcap, good overall, just make sure you have a doran or two to make up your HP pool and mana regen if you want to rush it as first major item

3. Void staff, good item only when the enemy starts building MR, don't build if the enemy have below 100 MR in most cases

4. Zhonya, good buy after finishing deathcap and other stuff, also can be built earlier into the game if the enemy is heavy on physical damage (or enemy have Talon)

5. Rylai, average item in most cases. You will rarely need the slow proc on Q and E, while W already got a slow. Can be built if you really need the HP, but usually not worth it

My recommended item: Abyssal Scepter.
the MR and AP allows you to do more damage while surviving enemy magic output. If Orianna doesn't have someone else to throw the ball on, and must be closer to the enemy team, this item can save lives.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Too Beast4u View Post
Alright so I read through like 20 pages lol not going to read 110..
Anyway, I am in the 1400-1500 elo bracket and I think I do quite well although my champ selection is quite small.
I'd like to know more about what a near perfect Team comp consists of because I think thats where I am losing. I am very unsure how to counter pick and I just seem to pick champs I like to play or I notice we dont have a tank and I play amumu..
One thing I want to talk about first
1. True tank is unnecessary

In the current meta, the top lane tends to be able to build quite tanky (with some exceptions such as Tryndamere, or Riven) and the Jungler tends to be quite tanky as well. These two bruisers can often make up the fact that True tank is not needed.

HOWEVER.

Be sure that those bruisers also have a way to stop the enemy/ make the enemy focus them. For example, Tryndamere gets focus due to his damage output, while Udyr gets focus because he can keep stunning the enemy.

Making a team comp is more about balancing in each area, or be really strong in certain area that the enemy have no way of winning a fight. For example, Kog and Nunu is really weak at laning against Soraka lane due to the lack of sustain, but their damage output in mid game and late game really shines and outdamage most bottom lane. In this case, middle lane and top lane cannot all be late game champions, so Nasus top or Veigar mid will not be recommended (actually, Veigar mid is still possible, but yea, Nasus top is a bad choice)

Or, you can try to build a team comp with a lot of CC and protection, with a carry that does massive damage, Alistar jungle, Vayne, Janna support, is one of the best team comp of protect. The knockbacks can easily destroy AoE champions such as Kennen or Cass. It also saves Vayne from being attack for quite a long time while she can do all her output.


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n00boxular

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Senior Member

05-15-2012

Me again!
I just played a game as jungle shen and I RAPED! Screenshot here
I Built Wriggles> Ninja Tabi> Heart of gold> Wit's End> Aegis> Frozen Mallet> Locket of Iron Teemo.

Was my decision to build aura items on Shen a good choice since my support was bleh? When should tanky jungler choose to build aura items?

I also noticed a problem, mid game, around when I had my Wit's end, olaf was demolishing me with his true damage. Should I have built health before my wit's end to sacrifice those few kills mid game so that olaf wouldn't have gotten those 3 kills off me?

Another thing, I notice that when my early game ganks give me kills instead of assists, I can carry better mid-late game. However I get assists like 90% of my ganks, should I actually try to last hit that ganking kill off my laning ally?

Also, in that build, Frozen Mallet is SUCH a luxury and olaf was getting fed, varus giving me trouble, I felt that investing in health would be better than magic resist (their fiddle was basically ignorable except for his annoying taunts). In a balanced enemy team however, which item (except the frozen mallet) should I sacrifice for some magic resist? Force of nature or Maw of Morthsdnlosdblasdf?


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00boxular View Post
Me again!
I just played a game as jungle shen and I RAPED! Screenshot here
I Built Wriggles> Ninja Tabi> Heart of gold> Wit's End> Aegis> Frozen Mallet> Locket of Iron Teemo.

Was my decision to build aura items on Shen a good choice since my support was bleh? When should tanky jungler choose to build aura items?

I also noticed a problem, mid game, around when I had my Wit's end, olaf was demolishing me with his true damage. Should I have built health before my wit's end to sacrifice those few kills mid game so that olaf wouldn't have gotten those 3 kills off me?

Another thing, I notice that when my early game ganks give me kills instead of assists, I can carry better mid-late game. However I get assists like 90% of my ganks, should I actually try to last hit that ganking kill off my laning ally?

Also, in that build, Frozen Mallet is SUCH a luxury and olaf was getting fed, varus giving me trouble, I felt that investing in health would be better than magic resist (their fiddle was basically ignorable except for his annoying taunts). In a balanced enemy team however, which item (except the frozen mallet) should I sacrifice for some magic resist? Force of nature or Maw of Morthsdnlosdblasdf?
You can often change around the build order to Aegis -> Wit's end if you want some more health. Due to the HP and damage aura from Aegis, you will come out a little bit more tanky while the damage is not much less than wit's end

As for getting kills, usually Shen wants to get assist and give the kills to the carry. However, when a lane is open for farming, go enjoy and take the farm!

Maw will be better in most cases


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Voidjames

Member

05-16-2012

I saw that you said true tanks are unnecessary. However, if the chance arises (Shen isn’t banned/taken) would you not solo top Shen? And if you do end up playing Shen under these circumstances would you build pure tank? Also, who counters Shen?


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidjames View Post
I saw that you said true tanks are unnecessary. However, if the chance arises (Shen isnít banned/taken) would you not solo top Shen? And if you do end up playing Shen under these circumstances would you build pure tank? Also, who counters Shen?
Solo top Shen is a strong pick, so if he isn't banned, there is a good chance for people to go with him.

I still won't build him full tank, although I will make him really tanky. Shen does have the power to do some real damage with his passive and vapor blade, which allows people to go tanky with 3 items and damage with 2 items.

Shen is one of the few picks that is really hard to counter, however, an Udyr can outsustain him by going turtle and do damage with tiger (Taunt only reduce physical damage, while tiger is actually magic damage) and some other picks such as Rumble also do decently against him.

My personal favorite will be Yorick.


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Phylaros

Junior Member

05-16-2012

Hi.

I've been reading a lot of your tips and strategies, and I still keep losing games, normal ones. I started to play Jax, it's kind easy, i can solo any champ, and I always ward my lane preventing ganks and beeing able to gank any time. But my team ALWAYS troll in something, they do builds that dont help, they are squishy and never build Heath or armor items, unless they're tank/off-tank...

I just wanna know what should I do? I have 429 wins and 440 loss, I've never being like this, my wins always were up or the same as my loss... Should I build a team with people that I trust to get out this Elo Hell? And... There is Elo Hell at normal games?


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Duhizy

Senior Member

05-17-2012

hello good sir

in my attempt to better my mid lane game i watched reginalds stream and noticed something odd. When he plays mid regardless of champ selection( this case being kennen) he chooses many times to harass over farm. In this instance, anytime kennens passive surge proc came up he would sit and wait for the enemy to go for a last hit and do some damage causing him to miss upwards or 2 cs to do this at a time. The enemy he faced was ahri and she would still manage to do decent trade damage to him while maintaining her cs.

My theory is it becomes worth the cs trade if the damage forces a potion ie 150 damage. At the laning phase end he and the ahri had similar cs( around 90 at 12 min) except he had 5 kills. Do u feel that what he did was proper? Had he not done this he would have been about 20 cs ahead with 3 kills but the fact remains that he blatantly chose to harass over cs many times and im wondering if there are actually situations that damage become a more viable option that i should be looking out for?


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BendyBread

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Senior Member

05-17-2012

As far as Renekt goes, how can I use him to carry into late? I've seen people dominate top and even help do monstrous stuff in mid, but since he drops off late game, it's a struggle to keep my efficiency rolling.


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Duhizy

Senior Member

05-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solatoral View Post
As far as Renekt goes, how can I use him to carry into late? I've seen people dominate top and even help do monstrous stuff in mid, but since he drops off late game, it's a struggle to keep my efficiency rolling.
you'd have to build pure offensive items like stacking bloodthirsters or something which is terribly unviable seeing as you no longer fulfill ur purpose. At best i would rush a maw early game if im getting fed and then get a frozen mallet and atmas, your much better off trying to get tanky and dealing heavy sustained damage imo.