How come no one plays Swain?

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Coehabamba

Member

12-27-2011

ya swain is definitly an underplayed champ. i played him hardcore when he came out and months after but moved on. i found that there are 2 ways you can build him. with more mana/health Roa, Rylas...blah blah. or go more ap (i start wtih an abyssal scepter and then a deathcap) but if you build more ap and you do WELL, its just way to easy to get focused down late game if even one ad carry on the other team knows what they are doing...and then if you build more tankish..i feel you just dont have the damage to really help...although you dont die easily. he does take a lot of skill to play, because of nethermove and the order of spells you have to cast.
and i alway use ignite wtih swain. when going mid (which i always do) it adds a 3rd dot you can throw on your opponent and then you can flash to keep up with them when they try to get away from your ult.


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NakedGranny

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Senior Member

12-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelark View Post
Nevermore can be a pain to land, but there's ways around that. Decrepify for example, slows down whoever you hit with it. There's also Rylai's scepter which can be pretty useful with Torment in terms of slowing. But above all, nothing really beats running out from the jungle and hitting them with Nevermore. Unless they have wards set up everywhere (which they don't), they won't be expecting it.

I've actually never even used Ignite with Swain, but I guess I'll give it a go since you mentioned it(Thanks). And if you've got someone decent shutting down Swain shouldn't be so easy. For example, if I'm not being brain dead, I'll usually be pretty aware of what's going on and using Flash + Ravenous Flock (and maybe a bit of Nevermore for a stun) will get me out of almost anything. Nevermore is really easy to hit if you're being chased, and Ravenous Flock makes chasing Swain almost as bad as going after Singed.

The cool downs are a problem for me though. But I guess that's what team mates are for, right?
the reason for Ignite and the DFG on Swain is because they're both affected by Torment... in theory, so would the Gunblade be, but i haven't tried that yet. (and why would you?)

just for the record, NevermoVe is a root, not a stun.

and if you wanted to exploit Rylai to more easily land a hard CC, then why not just use Xerath for a real stun at greater range? or use Ahri who's Charm is one of the best CC moves in the game and easier to land itself? or for that matter, Lux who has better damage output and stronger laning, or Morgana who makes a better tank AND mage?

the point being that you can't assume to always have a particular item as an argument for the balance of a champion. any other champion could have that item, and the items aren't part of a champion, even if they are considered important for the way that champion currently plays.

the cooldowns are a very serious problem because Swain's crowd control is, essentially, the entire reason to allow him a slot on your team at all. without consistently landing Nevermove and Decrepify, he only offers mediocre damage (none of it is even burst!) and quite sub-par tank (assuming you're even prioritized as a target!). the good news is that Ionia Treads and DFG with runes and masteries will cap your CDR. the bad news is that he's already a serious mana-gobbler, and hasn't got much room in the pacing of his build to fit in an Archangel, and doesn't really scale spectacularly with raw AP, anyway...

another build option that works well for Morgana, but might work for Swain is rushing an Archangel and Frozen Heart with BVeil and Mercs. it's, essentially, a pure tank build, and is quite expensive, but rather effective (you're in range for your aura just for using your ult in the first place). it will solve your mana problems and get you within 5% of the CDR cap, but is slow to start out (you'll be an assist *****, not a carry... but Swain can't carry even as well as Morgana anyway, so whatever). Spell Vamp and a Spirit Visage are both usually considered extremely desirable for Swain, and this build won't be finished before the match is (for 90% of the normals mode matches)...

unfortunately, i just haven't come up with a decent build for Swain other than DFG, Spirit Visage and WotA. he needs all three, but they don't provide him as much tank as he needs to do his job as one. Swain either needs a solid buff to his scaling, or everyone else needs a nerf to their tankiness.


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MattSlick

Member

01-05-2012

hes really good, but hard to play and more of like a singed as in the fact he sustains and dmg's while being chased.


He is pretty much a ap mage singed.


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7thcloud

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Senior Member

01-05-2012

he has a number of weaknesses.

1. no reliable hard cc
2. no burst
3. needs to combo all his spells to do damage (higher skill required to do mediocre dmg)
4. no gap closer
5. mana-intensive (lvl 6+)
6. bad ap ratios

everything he does well (teamfight/sustain), other mids do better. as for top, he has no escape making him vulnerable to ganks


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1UPedU

Senior Member

01-05-2012

swain might not have the heavy burst dmg as other ap mids like brand, annie, leblanc, etc
however he provides a great addition to a tank wall of the team espically against melee heavy comps
also his cc is crazy late game; if you have swain +ali+vayne teamfights are a cinch assuming swain and ali can land there combos

edit: 7thcloud you have no ranked experince other than a few games in premade 5v5s and thats low elo; how about getting some experince first?
1if you cant land his nevermove relaibly you just fail at timing skillshots
5hes mana intesnive yes but if you build a rod of ages and arent complety brain dead(as in know to last hit minions not use combo to try and kill them all) you will never have mana issues even without blue(its still nice to have for teamfights)
4many other mids have no gap closer like annie, malz, morgana, ahri(except her ult which if you use for gap closing you have no escape and swain has better escape with his ult)
3 just because a champ has a higher skill floor than others doesn't mean their bad
2 he has sustained damage cability because of his passive allowing him to not run oom while harrassing heavily with spells
additionally hes almost impossible to gank unless you overextend (and even then) because his ult gives him so much healing; also the one item that hardcounters swain (exc calling) will NEVER be built by the other teams apmid


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BackOrifice

Member

01-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UPedU
2 he has sustained damage cability because of his passive allowing him to not run oom while harrassing heavily with spells
additionally hes almost impossible to gank unless you overextend (and even then) because his ult gives him so much healing; also the one item that hardcounters swain (exc calling) will NEVER be built by the other teams apmid
Except almost every mid takes ignite.

/all gg


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Maximusx

Senior Member

01-06-2012

Saw a Swain go 12/5/6 today. Dont know what your talking about.


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Dmoneydman

Junior Member

01-06-2012

People used to play swain, then he took an arrow to the knee


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DrAgOnErA

Junior Member

01-06-2012

I Play Swain xD


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We Lib u Die

Junior Member

01-07-2012

Swain is a cool champ I dont even have him but the week he was free i played him alot. I love the whole tank/mage. The feeling when you hit that ulti, you cant really die.


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