@Riot Teemo NEED buffs, and here is why.

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Vadeil

Senior Member

12-22-2011

Yes teemo needs love.


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Exzodium

Senior Member

12-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerfaust View Post
Champion Feedback forum ----------->
Emissary, shut up, you know as well as everyone else, reds don't go in there.


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Flakeless

Senior Member

12-22-2011

Upvoted.


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Vadeil

Senior Member

12-22-2011

bump


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fists and elbows

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Junior Member

12-22-2011

I'm new and love Teemo, and I'd love to see him get a small boost. Mainly his range and base dmg. He definitely struggles in team fights later on, because he'll get punished severely for getting into range.


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Vadeil

Senior Member

12-22-2011

bump


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Vadeil

Senior Member

12-22-2011

must keep on first page.


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

12-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yfrappefort View Post
Teemo is outdated.
1. An analysis of Teemoís ability:

The problem: This is Teemoís only CC, and sadly, itís the weakest of all CC. Blind only works with auto-attack, and there are very few champions, aside carry, which relies heavily on AA. As new champions get released, there is less and less champions Teemo can actually counter with his blind. Itís unreliable to stop enemy ability, because it works on some of them, while it does not on others. For exemple, blind will make Renektonís stun and Nasusís Q miss, while Vayne can still use tumble and proc silver bolt even when blinded.

The problem: This is Teemoís chasing and escape ability. The passive on it is nice for moving around out of combat. Unfortunatly, itís almost useless when Teemo need it the most: in team fights. Since the bonus is lost upon being hit, Teemo is very slow when he needs to be the most mobile. The active on it is also weak, especially since the nerf. Only 3 secs boost for 22 secs CD is ridiculous. It offers no protection from incoming CC, so the boost is barely noticeable in team fights.

The problem: This is Teemoís main damaging source. Itís quite handy to have early game for last hiting and harassing the enemy. However, the more the game goes on, the less useful his poison becomes. In the end, the damage is just a minor annoyance, and is not doing as much damage as it should.

The problem: This is Teemoís signature move, and the main reason he is so hated. This is mostly used for map awareness. The problem is in the damage it deals. Currently, any champions who get MR or with self-healing, shield or sustain (Udyr, for exemple) can step on 3+ of his mushrooms in a row with very little punishment, since the dot does not stack and the impact damage is very low. The fact that melee can still destroy mushrooms with melee attack without them exploding in their face is also really frustrating.


The problem: This allow Teemo to hide and ambush champions, as well as escaping ganks. Itís propably the most balanced part of his kit, but it is still lacking something. Itís mostly good early, but you canít really use it by endgame because it puts you at too much risk (*cough oracle cough*). Since you canít move to keep the stealth, it may put you at more risks then you expected when a teamfight starts. The one who planned to ambush become the ambushed.

So he got a bad CC, a weak chasing/escape mechanic, a poison that get ignored in late game and an ult that can be easily denied. His overall kit is lacking, and need to be looked at.

A. His auto-attack range is low. Most important thing to change.

Teemoís current auto-attack range is 500. That is low. In fact, itís THE lowest of any ranged in the game, if you exclude Urgot (who is NOT an auto-attack champ anyway).

B. His base damage is very low

Teemoís base damage is 44,5. Thatís very low. In fact, he got the lowest base damage of all champions (excluding Orianna, with 44, but itís because of her passive).

C. His base speed is very low

Yeah, even with his ďSwift ScoutĒ title, Teemo sits with a poor 305 base movement speed. Yes, he does have move quick, which increase his speed UNTIL he is hit.

D. His chasing/escape mechanic is poor

Before his last nerf with Brandís patch in April, Teemoís move quick was a 3 second boost on a 13 sec CD. Now itís a 3 second boost on a 22 sec CD.

So we have now a total of 33 champions (around 37% of them) that can close the gap very quickly between Teemo and them, and this number will keep increasing with all the new champions coming out. Since his last nerf in April, 9 of those champs came out (Vayne, Leona, Wukong, Talon, Riven, Graves, Shyvana, Fizz and Ahri). Teemo rely on kiting to win, but with the increasing numbers of gap closer, itís something heís having more and more difficulty to do.

E. His AP ratios are low

I find that a bit sad, because currently the only viable build path for Teemo is tanky/on-hit. His blind got a 0.8 ratio, his poison got a weak 0.14 (on hit and dots) and his ult got 0.8.

AP Teemo is a very different play style then other Teemo build, you have to kite even more, prepare the field perfectly before big fights, and I wish it could be more rewarding.

3. A list of indirect nerfs to Teemo, wich made him less and less viable. For detailed informations about these nerfs, please refer to the timeline at http://timeline.leagueoflegends.com/:

a) The nerf to Witís end: Vayne patch
b) The nerf to ďMove QuickĒ and the removal of mushroom collision with ability: Yorick patch
c) The nerf to the Gunblade: Graves patch
d) The nerf to the Lantern and the Flash nerf: Fizz patch
e) The nerf to the ďAlacrityĒ talent in the offense tree: Ahri patch

While these nerfs only affected Teemo indirectly, he still has to deal with them. If Teemo was balanced, it would not be that much of a bother. However, in his current situation, any kind of nerfs, may they be direct or indirect, are making Teemo harder and harder to play.


4. An analysis of Teemoís role, and why so many people hate him.

What is Teemo role? That is the question some people will ask when playing Teemo. The truth is, he is very hard to place in a team, because he got no precise role, and cannot do any real role.

- He is not an AD carry: None of Teemoís ability scale off AD, and he got no steroid of any kind to help him do this job.

- He is not an AP carry: Even though Teemoís ability scale off AP, he cannot build purely AP. Why? Because he depends way too much on mushrooms to do anything, and he is gimping his team as soon as the enemy team get oracle. His presence in team fights will be very weak, and he will die very quickly.

- He canít jungle: Ok, maybe he ďcanĒ jungle now with the new mastery and surge spell, but honestly, there is NO reason at all to pick him over any other VIABLE junglers. Any junglers can do the job better.

- He canít support: By supports, I mean the current Meta, which is 0 CS. Supports can generally do good with very few items, like Janna, Sona, etc. because they have CC and/or heals to assists their team. Sadly, this is not the case with Teemo. Not only does he lack a heal and decent CC but he also needs items to be decent, and by items I mean lots. Having almost no damage/health items and just standard support items (gp10 for exemple), you will just put a giant sign on your head saying ďgank me, Iím even easier to killĒ and will further increase the global taunt. The only reason he is tagged ďsupportĒ is because of his mushrooms, but these are not enough for him to do this role. Any supports can do the job better.

So what role is there left for Teemo? Not much aside a counter pick to very specific champions (like Garen, Singed, Tryndamere, Nasus). You can almost only play him as a solo top, to replace a melee bruiser. His low range prevents him from going bot lane with a support, and he canít possibly face an AP carry in mid without getting owned (again, mostly because of his abyssal range). What does he bring to the team? A blind to annoy the ranged carry. Some additional map awareness. Decent split push. Thatís about it.

So why so many people hate Teemo? Mostly for the points above, but because:

a) He canít do any role. He is a jack of all trade, master of none. People like it when their teammates pick specific roles (especially in ranked), because they can pick champions accordingly with what the team need.

b) They hate his mushrooms. Not much to explain here. People just hate to stomp on his mushrooms after a well executed gank only to die a few seconds after. Funny thing is that they are so easy to counter. Teemo mostly deal magic damage, and his mushrooms are no exceptions. Build some MR or get an oracle and voila! You have countered Teemo.

c) But most importantly, they hate the fact that you need to be extremely good with Teemo just to make him look decent.
Trimmed a bit for space.

There are several core points I want to deal with:
1: AP Ratios
His are actually quite reasonable. 0.8, 0.7, and 0.8. It isn't at the level of hard AP carries meant to kill off the entire enemy team, it is because if the nuanced power he demonstrates.

His base damage is also quite high, at 260 per 10, 195 per 4 seconds, and 600 per 27 seconds (with an ammo system). His shrooms, while counterable, are still quite powerful and pressure the enemy into buying oracles. His real ability to shine is from reducing the enemy's health pre-teamfight, granting advantageous ground for teamfights, and to force the enemy to waste money that could better be spent on offensive ability. He is countered by sustain, not armor.

2: Base stats
These are actually mostly poor to compensate for his fantastic base AS (the best in the game). This is the stat from which all AS items scale, making him respond to them fantasticly. This is the sole reason why people like him as an AD character.



You are right about blind, it is an outdated effect. He has a huge amount of power tied into his blind, but it just doesn't work much of the time. Too many champions simply do not use autoattacks nowadays, many of which are autoattackers.

I would contend that if blind also nullified all AD that Teemo would be fine. Simple as that, auto-attacks miss and the target has 0 AD.


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AtomRod

Senior Member

12-22-2011

really the only problem with him is his pathetic range, combined with horribly low survivability. Fix just one of those he'll be fine.


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pichuu

Member

12-22-2011

bump, i would love to be able to play teemo in normal games without people raging about how it's an auto-loss