@Riot Teemo NEED buffs, and here is why.

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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
1100~ish ELO.

Where was I talking about high level play? Did you not read what the person I was actually responding to said? They said late game, for them, Teemo basically means his team is now 4v5 because Teemo is useless.

I provided my experience, which makes what they said not completely true. Why you're attempting to deviate from that simple statement is beyond me. I made no claim of high level play, I simply said "hey, late game, I do better with him."
I'm just countering how what you state in experience, could still be of little value to his balance and viability. I'm assuming 1100 elo is from last season (maybe even farther than the Brand patch), since it shows no numbers at all of games played, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I think Teemo is viable there (do to the inexperienced, mistake-prone players), as is any champ really (this game overall is relatively balanced to allow any champ to shine), its the 1400 elo or higher I'm worried about, where people know how to play against specific champs.


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm One View Post
I'm just countering how what you state in experience, could still be of little value to his balance and viability. I'm assuming 1100 elo is from last season (maybe even farther than the Brand patch), since it shows no numbers at all of games played, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I think Teemo is viable there (do to the inexperienced, mistake-prone players), as is any champ really (this game overall is relatively balanced to allow any champ to shine), its the 1400 elo or higher I'm worried about, where people know how to play against specific champs.
Again, the person I was originally quoting was saying nothing of his higher ELO viability.


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Akuma67

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Anyone who thinks Teemo needs a buff has no idea what they are talking about. LOL.


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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
Again, the person I was originally quoting was saying nothing of his higher ELO viability.
He was talking about viability in the late game. Obviously, like I said, any champ can shine at a lower-tier, late-game or not. I was countering your statistics this whole time, that you originally gave to say he is viable late-game. Can't you see?


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Samich4ME

Member

10-16-2012

Bump. you are correct


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm One View Post
He was talking about viability in the late game. Obviously, like I said, any champ can shine at a lower-tier, late-game or not. I was countering your statistics this whole time, that you originally gave to say he is viable late-game. Can't you see?
I can see where you just try to disregard player experience/discussion with the blanket statement of "any champ can shine." That's a given. But, again, read exactly what they said:

Quote:
I still love Teemo, but I never play him anymore because it's nearly impossible to win with him unless the other team doesn't build MR or the game ends in a surrender at 20 minutes.
Quote:
Get to late game and we only have to worry about 4 players.
That's implying any ELO, whether it's normal or ranked play. That's implying that, no matter what (save the MR mention) that Teemo is worthless post-20 minutes.

That's what I was discussing, that he's not auto-lose post 20 minutes. The person I quoted made a blanket statement suggesting at every level of play Teemo is worthless post-20 min. Then you step in, attempting to drive it towards a high ELO discussion and then add your own blanket statement of "any champ can do good."

We were discussing (or at least I was, since they never replied) whether or not he was auto-lose post 20 min in general. Again, read their original statement: post-20 min Teemo is worthless.

I simply offered up my games showing he is not. Not only that I have a fairly good win/loss record with him in ranked, which I very much doubt is contributed wholly to the other players simply sucking.


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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
I can see where you just try to disregard player experience/discussion with the blanket statement of "any champ can shine." That's a given. But, again, read exactly what they said:



That's implying any ELO, whether it's normal or ranked play. That's implying that, no matter what (save the MR mention) that Teemo is worthless post-20 minutes.

That's what I was discussing, that he's not auto-lose post 20 minutes. The person I quoted made a blanket statement suggesting at every level of play Teemo is worthless post-20 min. Then you step in, attempting to drive it towards a high ELO discussion and then add your own blanket statement of "any champ can do good."

We were discussing (or at least I was, since they never replied) whether or not he was auto-lose post 20 min in general. Again, read their original statement: post-20 min Teemo is worthless.

I simply offered up my games showing he is not. Not only that I have a fairly good win/loss record with him in ranked, which I very much doubt is contributed wholly to the other players simply sucking.
I took his statement to imply more than basic general tactics, which is how it is connected to higher elo. If he did mean his words as you say, (saying it is impossible for him to matter late game), then obviously he'd be wrong.

But when people say they'll get work on time tomorrow for sure, that doesn't mean they are saying that literally; as in a meteor crashing into their car randomly on the freeway, yet still somehow getting on time. They mean that in the sense of, "I'll do what is reasonable to ensure that I'll be on time for work tomorrow".

At some point you have to assume what others are implying, otherwise we'd have to carefully structure every sentence in a long format. He's basically (as by what I assume) saying Teemo sucks late game in-general compared to other champs, has much less a chance to carry, and be viable in high elo. It can be all of that, or one of that, or something else. But to think he means literally "CANNOT EVERY HELP LATE-GAME" is pushing it.


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warm One View Post
I took his statement to imply more than basic general tactics, which is how it is connected to higher elo. If he did mean his words as you say, (saying it is impossible for him to matter late game), then obviously he'd be wrong.

But when people say they'll get work on time tomorrow for sure, that doesn't mean they are saying that literally; as in a meteor crashing into their car randomly on the freeway, yet still somehow getting on time. They mean that in the sense of, "I'll do what is reasonable to ensure that I'll be on time for work tomorrow".

At some point you have to assume what others are implying, otherwise we'd have to carefully structure every sentence in a long format. He's basically (as by what I assume) saying Teemo sucks late game in-general compared to other champs, has much less a chance to carry, and be viable in high elo. It can be all of that, or one of that, or something else. But to think he means literally "CANNOT EVERY HELP LATE-GAME" is pushing it.
Except that's what it looks like. There's no mention of what game type, ELO level, etc, just "post-20 min, Teemo is worthless."

So, again, I simply gave some evidence of at least one player doing well with Teemo post-20 min on a consistent basis, proven again with my last 3 games with Teemo (normal), a win at 41 min (8/0/11), a loss at 51 min (12/13/18) and a win at 55 min (11/2/15).

My record of past games, both ranked and normal, can't simply be "everyone else sucked" when I'm getting such consistent numbers. My evidence displays that Teemo can, consistently, push into late game and still do well, which is anti- his original statement.

Whether or not this holds up in higher ELOs is yet to be seen due to his low level of use and his arguable place of viability.

I think, perhaps, I'm maybe just one of those few rare good Teemo players.


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Tsabo

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
Except that's what it looks like. There's no mention of what game type, ELO level, etc, just "post-20 min, Teemo is worthless."

So, again, I simply gave some evidence of at least one player doing well with Teemo post-20 min on a consistent basis, proven again with my last 3 games with Teemo (normal), a win at 41 min (8/0/11), a loss at 51 min (12/13/18) and a win at 55 min (11/2/15).

My record of past games, both ranked and normal, can't simply be "everyone else sucked" when I'm getting such consistent numbers. My evidence displays that Teemo can, consistently, push into late game and still do well, which is anti- his original statement.

Whether or not this holds up in higher ELOs is yet to be seen due to his low level of use and his arguable place of viability.

I think, perhaps, I'm maybe just one of those few rare good Teemo players.


Maybe, the problem is, you can be the most awesome Teemo in the world, but if you play against people who really know how to play, you are screwed anyway, as someone said some pages ago "get to late game and worry about 4 enemies".

I think Teemo is only "viable" as a top counter-pick with a PREMADE team which you know they can win their lane, because if you win your lane, doesn't mean you can snowball like other champs (ie jayce, rengar, blabla, etc), your job is to shut down their top lane and turn it to a 4.5vs4


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzabo View Post
[/B]

Maybe, the problem is, you can be the most awesome Teemo in the world, but if you play against people who really know how to play, you are screwed anyway, as someone said some pages ago "get to late game and worry about 4 enemies".

I think Teemo is only "viable" as a top counter-pick with a PREMADE team which you know they can win their lane, because if you win your lane, doesn't mean you can snowball like other champs (ie jayce, rengar, blabla, etc), your job is to shut down their top lane and turn it to a 4.5vs4
You can say your first section for any champion. You can be the most awesome Morgana in the world, but if you play against people who really know how to play, she is screwed anyway. I've seen Talon's beat Morgs so badly mid that they had to pull her top another lane.

Again, you could say your second statement for a lot of champions.