@Riot Teemo NEED buffs, and here is why.

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GSHalleck

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xDaNx View Post
With or without buffs I simply love Teemo, he's just too fun to play. But there are a few things that should be improved, like shroom's uselessness because you can eat a whole soup of them and don't get punished for it
This is the main thing I look forward to the new patch addressing, if possible. Either you don't spec into them and you can waddle over them as a squishy without giving a ****, or you do spec into them and someone buys Oracles.


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Etsuki

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04-08-2012

>Teemo builds berserker's greaves and maxes out his movement speed skill
>481 move speed without activating the skill
>Can activate it to outrun an ulting singed using ghost and boots of swiftness
>Can kite said singed
(He might've had ghost. I can't remember. He could still usualy outrun them pretty easily)


Since he's apparently already getting a damage buff according to the patch preview, can his movement speed skill get nerfed so he can't outrun every other champ in the game except POSSIBLY the upcoming cavalry? If you're asking for a power buff, then at least remove his ability to outrun everyone in the game casualy.


That said, the shroom thing the above user quotes? If they made it any stronger, it'd need a nerf again.

It's a spammable ward that does decent damage and slows whoever walks on it. The only reason it DOESN'T do more damage when you take them in bulk is because I think it just refreshes the poison, and they don't stack. If they DID stack, you could pretty much oneshot the average character by stacking them in a single bush


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GSHalleck

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etsuki View Post
>Teemo builds berserker's greaves and maxes out his movement speed skill
>481 move speed without activating the skill
>Can activate it to outrun an ulting singed using ghost and boots of swiftness
>Can kite said singed
(He might've had ghost. I can't remember. He could still usualy outrun them pretty easily)


Since he's apparently already getting a damage buff according to the patch preview, can his movement speed skill get nerfed so he can't outrun every other champ in the game except POSSIBLY the upcoming cavalry? If you're asking for a power buff, then at least remove his ability to outrun everyone in the game casualy.


That said, the shroom thing the above user quotes? If they made it any stronger, it'd need a nerf again.

It's a spammable ward that does decent damage and slows whoever walks on it. The only reason it DOESN'T do more damage when you take them in bulk is because I think it just refreshes the poison, and they don't stack. If they DID stack, you could pretty much oneshot the average character by stacking them in a single bush
As evidence of the general ignorance of Teemo's abilities, I've lost count of the number of people I've seen try Teemo and stack them all in the same bush anyway. And, as has been said before, they are only "buffing" him incidentally. The change to his E is a bug fix, despite it existing for over a year. It remains to be seen whether the other changes are buffs or reversals of previous nerfs, and frankly I can't wait for Tuesday to see.

I would happily sacrifice some of his movement speed for more damage, but movement speed is kind of his thing. He's supposed to be the fastest. Even with the buff, he won't do the most damage by a very long shot. I expect him to still have terrible range, and this means he'll still need to risk his movement speed boost whenever he pokes. If you want a rework, I'd be interested to see all the changes you'd suggest.


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Chaede

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etsuki View Post
>Teemo builds berserker's greaves and maxes out his movement speed skill
>481 move speed without activating the skill
>Can activate it to outrun an ulting singed using ghost and boots of swiftness
>Can kite said singed
(He might've had ghost. I can't remember. He could still usualy outrun them pretty easily)


Since he's apparently already getting a damage buff according to the patch preview, can his movement speed skill get nerfed so he can't outrun every other champ in the game except POSSIBLY the upcoming cavalry? If you're asking for a power buff, then at least remove his ability to outrun everyone in the game casualy.


That said, the shroom thing the above user quotes? If they made it any stronger, it'd need a nerf again.

It's a spammable ward that does decent damage and slows whoever walks on it. The only reason it DOESN'T do more damage when you take them in bulk is because I think it just refreshes the poison, and they don't stack. If they DID stack, you could pretty much oneshot the average character by stacking them in a single bush
A few things I need to correct for you. Firstly, Teemo's Move Quick is lost the first time someone or a tower hits him. He has the shortest range of any ranged character. 1 hit and he is back to pretty much the lowest speed in the game. Also, he moves slower than GP, has no built in slow or cleanse that can be used at range.

Second the active on Move Quick has the longest CD in game of any speed boost or gap closer. CC him during it or deal with the fact that he is a lot squishier than Singed and can rarely do it. Singed can puddle him to stop him from kiting, the puddle has about the same range as Teemo's attack animation. Also, everyone knows you don't follow Teemo for very long.

Lastly, Mushrooms do meh damage. Buy a little MR or oracles and they will cease being a problem. Tanks can run over them without noticing as can most characters with some sort of self shield (Morg, Lulu, Riven etc). Singed doesn't even notice Mushrooms by mid game. Most 'squishies' can heal the damage of a mushroom back up with 2 minion/monster kills at most. Teemo has to stack AP for them to do anything and given that he only has 1 in fight nuke (blind, mushroom cannot be used effectively in a fight as it takes 1.5 seconds to place and become active at melee range... Teemo would be dead by then).

All I can say that is it sounds like you don't play very well or you think Teemo should be a free kill.


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Etsuki

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04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaede View Post
A few things I need to correct for you. Firstly, Teemo's Move Quick is lost the first time someone or a tower hits him. He has the shortest range of any ranged character. 1 hit and he is back to pretty much the lowest speed in the game. Also, he moves slower than GP, has no built in slow or cleanse that can be used at range.

Second the active on Move Quick has the longest CD in game of any speed boost or gap closer. CC him during it or deal with the fact that he is a lot squishier than Singed and can rarely do it. Singed can puddle him to stop him from kiting, the puddle has about the same range as Teemo's attack animation. Also, everyone knows you don't follow Teemo for very long.

Lastly, Mushrooms do meh damage. Buy a little MR or oracles and they will cease being a problem. Tanks can run over them without noticing as can most characters with some sort of self shield (Morg, Lulu, Riven etc). Singed doesn't even notice Mushrooms by mid game. Most 'squishies' can heal the damage of a mushroom back up with 2 minion/monster kills at most. Teemo has to stack AP for them to do anything and given that he only has 1 in fight nuke (blind, mushroom cannot be used effectively in a fight as it takes 1.5 seconds to place and become active at melee range... Teemo would be dead by then).

All I can say that is it sounds like you don't play very well or you think Teemo should be a free kill.
My problem with his movement is that even if you break it by hitting him once, he can activate it again to get some distance. And good luck catching him when he does. And comparing him to GP is hardly fair since GP can do just about anything he pleases xD
And yes, he's obviously squishier than a tank, but also does more damage. Thing is though, to me, Singed strikes me as a champion all about disrupting the enemy team and kiting. But he looks like a turtle compared to how fast Teemo can move. And teemo moving pretty fast means he can outrange you hard. And he himself does not have that low a base speed. And, puddles were attempted. He just ran through them before he could be caught. And I thought Singed was a great troll.

As for Oracle's, most teemos put their shrooms in bushes, and Oracle's doesn't see into said bush. Yes, someone COULD go out of their way to destroy them, but they're wasting gold on it. They may not do that much damage, but they also have amazing utility. Pop'em all over the jungle next to a lane and you'll never be caught off-guard. Even with Oracle's, you'll have the general idea that they're there. And I rarely see anyone who's smart enough to even get said Oracle's, amusingly enough.

That said, this thread is about his buffs. Well, if he gets damage buffs, he won't NEED to have more speed. Right? It's a two-way street. If you want him to be stronger than he is and work better as a ranged ad or an ap char or whatever, then it's only fair that he give up on some of his other qualities.

Lastly, he does do decent damage as-is, and is an amazing harasser simply because he can kite just about anyone or outrun them when he needs to escape.


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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

04-08-2012

bump against LoL player ignorance of Teemo UPness


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Jikkur

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Senior Member

04-08-2012

Just went 16/5/14 with teemo in ranked (COUGH 1165 elo :C I R SCRUB) he dont need no buff


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TheWheatOne

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drag0nf0rceZ View Post
Just went 16/5/14 with teemo in ranked (COUGH 1165 elo :C I R SCRUB) he dont need no buff
Yes, using TRM's guide. At that low of an Elo, skill and build order is what matters more. Any champ can have results like that if played right against ignorant opponents, even Eve can have fun once in a while. Teemo also can counter very specific champs, which you may have been against.

I myself have gotten very good results before, but it doesn't mean my opponents were smart enough to get oracles.


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Chaede

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etsuki View Post
My problem with his movement is that even if you break it by hitting him once, he can activate it again to get some distance. And good luck catching him when he does. And comparing him to GP is hardly fair since GP can do just about anything he pleases xD
And yes, he's obviously squishier than a tank, but also does more damage. Thing is though, to me, Singed strikes me as a champion all about disrupting the enemy team and kiting. But he looks like a turtle compared to how fast Teemo can move. And teemo moving pretty fast means he can outrange you hard. And he himself does not have that low a base speed. And, puddles were attempted. He just ran through them before he could be caught. And I thought Singed was a great troll.

As for Oracle's, most teemos put their shrooms in bushes, and Oracle's doesn't see into said bush. Yes, someone COULD go out of their way to destroy them, but they're wasting gold on it. They may not do that much damage, but they also have amazing utility. Pop'em all over the jungle next to a lane and you'll never be caught off-guard. Even with Oracle's, you'll have the general idea that they're there. And I rarely see anyone who's smart enough to even get said Oracle's, amusingly enough.

That said, this thread is about his buffs. Well, if he gets damage buffs, he won't NEED to have more speed. Right? It's a two-way street. If you want him to be stronger than he is and work better as a ranged ad or an ap char or whatever, then it's only fair that he give up on some of his other qualities.

Lastly, he does do decent damage as-is, and is an amazing harasser simply because he can kite just about anyone or outrun them when he needs to escape.
His ability to reactivate his movement is on a 22 sec cd (18sec on PBE I think). Its still very long. Compare to any other move ability in game. Its only going to be available once per fight. If someone slaps a stun or exhaust on him when he uses move quick its GG. Singed is less affected by cc than Teemo. Sure Teemo may win a short game against Singed but Singed kites, he doesn't chase Teemo. If Singed is doing what he is supposed to, Teemo won't keep up, 1 hit of Singed poison and he is slowed. Teemo isn't really that fast and can be caught if you apply slows or have a gap closer. Also if he is running he isn't doing any damage. A good Teemo does well at baiting other teams to making stupid mistakes but other toons like Tryn, Singed, GP do it a lot better and generally live. Teemo really excels when the other team are dumb and chase him through his shroom farm. Of course if they are smart (much like people smart enough to ignore Singed and not run through his poison) Teemo is meh.

As for bushes, mushrooms and oracles. Oracles doesn't see into bushes but if you know oyu are against Teemo you enter bushes at the middle, once or twice you might get unlucky but if you avoid the obvious entry points chances are you will see the shrooms. As to a waste of gold, it really isn't, oracles helps you against enemy wards and stealthers as well. Wiping out mushrooms takes less time than it takes Teemo to run around and lay them. People forget its currently dangerous for Teemo to run around laying shrooms since he can only place them at close range. Meaning if someone is in a bush he has to walk right up to them and good luck getting away then. Again, in competative play where people play smart Teemo is easily countered, brings almost nothing to a team fight.


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KaXaSA

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etsuki View Post
>Teemo builds berserker's greaves and maxes out his movement speed skill
>481 move speed without activating the skill
>Can activate it to outrun an ulting singed using ghost and boots of swiftness
>Can kite said singed
you just forgot:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Move Quick
(Passive): Grants increased movement speed until struck by a champion or turret. This bonus is restored 5 seconds after last being struck by a champion or turret.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Move Quick
(Passive): Grants increased movement speed until struck by a champion or turret.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Move Quick
until struck by a champion or turret.
So when teemo the SWIFT scout most need his mobility he is stuck with a **** 305 base movement speed on par with champions that deal more damage and have better escape mechanism/auto-attack range.

meanwhile kennen for god know why got ms equal to 310... sivir 310... most of the nukers (that happens to also have more range on their skills than teemo with his 500 auto-attack range) 310...

I fail to see why Teemo the SWIFT scout still stuck with 305 base ms, move quick should be something extra not a fix to his low movement speed.

it's the same issue with toxic shot.. they gave teemo a skill that should improve his damage but then also gave him like the 4th lowest base damage in the game he is only above lulu orianna and karthus.

with the next buff assuming that they will only fix toxic shot AS issue + buff move quick and mushrooms (qol buffs) they basically partially reverted the last UNNECESSARY nerf... learn 2 balance riot.