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GodEmperorLetoII

Senior Member

12-16-2011

The downvote to close feature is terrible. Try and get a discussion on something not too popular and people just downvote instead of thinking about it or downvoting to follow the trend and it ruins any chance at the forum having real discussions that could be contreversial to the going opinion on the game.

Either the downvoting cap to close a thread needs to be WAY higher or you just should remove it entirely (imo remove it entirely, you have mods after all).

Or, you could have it so downvoted threads go to a queue for the mods to check out and they can judge if it's offensive or against the forum rules.

For example:

na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1596216

I tried to discuss a lot of change ideas. Nothing I say should happen for sure, but would love to get real discussion about the ideas. All I got was basically trolls and ******s and my thread gets closed instead of those people getting their posts removed and maybe even a temp ban?

Edit: putting this in this section of the forum cause as far as I can tell you guys have NO forum feedback section.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-18-2011

Ok, first, you're right to note the lack of a proper place to put something like this, and I'd agree that this forum is about as close as you can get.

Second; your original post (it appears at the time of this posting) is non-offensive (except insofar as you want to virtually gut many champions in a manner such as was done to Eve, Twitch, Mord, Tryn, Corki, Vlad, ....... may they rest in peace [humor]).

Which brings me to the 'but'; your follow up replies were definitely not so courteous or innocent as you might have people believe. While I see no vulgarity or the like, the words are nevertheless consistent with a "negative attitude," which is generally frowned upon by a majority (or at least a plurality) of this community. I am by no means defending any other instances of wrongful speech and words, nor any words of provokation, whether in the thread in question or elsewhere. However, at least on the first page, at least part of your responses were completely unwarranted, and frankly childish.

It would appear that you took what criticism was given in a manner as was not intended. In case you have not perused many of the threads posted in these forums, while the responses posted may not have been precisely what you asked for, and though at least some of them are in fact little if any better than your own replies, they are nevertheless responses (at least initially) that are genuine in some respect. Even were the commenters in question strictly the worst of trolls, ragers, and other types of notoriety, such would not necessarily excuse your responses, and such would not be reason for specific and public complaint, which in all honesty, is precisely what this post appears to be.

That being said, you nevertheless have a point here that downvotes may not be the best indicator of whether a thread should be closed, and perhaps a thread that would otherwise be closed should at least be passed through a filter or a moderator to check for actual violations - if that is the premise on which the LoL forums decide whether to close a thread: whether it be genuinely offensive or otherwise in breach of the TOS.

If the policy for closing threads is strictly community based, then at some point the community will have spoken, for better or worse. Whether and what an appropriate cap should be as it relates to such a relative policy may be up for discussion; but generally the way such things are handled, as I've seen, is via an attempt to earnestly reformulate the question, premise, or post. Your particular post has some serious issues, which I have heretofore alluded to, but which I shall presently elaborate upon, at least in part.


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-18-2011

There's a big problem with your proposed changes: there are too many that are too big and too 1-sided. In short, they force everybody towards a particular dynamic that favors a select group of champions, and cripple if not destroy a number of them. I'll try to deal with a few quintessential examples here.

Udyr - what you're proposing is essentially what they did to Eve, except that he doesn't have stealth to make up for it (not that that's a real balance as long as wards and oracles exist). This would essentially destroy at least 20% of Udyr's gameplay, if not the great majority of it. Furthermore, there's no reason for it, unless you simply dislike stuns, but that isn't going to fly well with most people who play this game. Other proposed changes that are similar include: Vlad (Pool), Vayne (Bolts), Talon, Shaco, Rammus, Morgana, LeBlanc, Kassadin (silence), Fizz, Alistar (Heal).

Ryze - everything Ryze does is targeted (except his Ult), throwing in a random skillshot is frankly ridiculous. It's already enough of an issue worrying about the varying ranges on his spells and the combo order (it's rather long). It's also pointless, and overly punishing since the skill in question is merely a snare and easily dealt with in so many ways. It would seem you have a general problem with CC, and yet I don't see the likes of Heim, Teemo, Malz, Fidd, Annie, Noc, and a number of others, though frankly I'm surprised at that. Similar changes include: Taric, Sion, and Xin Zhao, though Xin is a bit different in that Charge doesn't immediately produce CC, but is nevertheless required as is in order to make him work.

Swain - reducing healing effects reduces them; it doesn't mitigate them. Importantly, reduced healing is the only 'hard' counter to powerful regeneration. It would be like giving Jax an extra dodge against Sword of the Divine [active]. The same goes for Mundo and all other self-healers and regenerators.

Karth (ult) - trust me, you're not the first to QQ about it, and trust me, you won't be the last, but trust me, it's really not that bad - well, it is, but that's the point. The fundamental point of Karth's ult is to make everybody on the opposing team conscious and cautious about their choices, thus opening his team to a better field strategically. In this respect it differs from no other long-range or global ult. Gangplank, Ez, Ash, and Soraka can all be just as 'lucky' in picking up kills (or saves in Raka's case).


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GodEmperorLetoII

Senior Member

12-19-2011

Wasn't about the idea thread lol. I never said they were perfect ideas, btw. But that kinda constructive discussion is what I was hoping for :| unfortunately the way the forum is that never happened. And it seems this voting system is one of the causes of that kinda forum mentality. Rather than really talk about it, just vote it away and never think about it again.

My other posts in that thread were merely "If you can't be mature about this and actually post constructive criticism, please leave" and then the trolling and ******* behavior never stopped so I got a little less nice, but the message was the same and I still never got to their level of jackassitude. At this point in LoL's life span, I think this system of downvoting resulting in closes is poor. Back when the game was newer and the community (especially the forum one) was a bit smaller it could work. But now that it's larger? It really doesn't.

I will say, I do think a slow would work Udyr a lot better than Eve. He has the survivability and the damage to deal with it (Eve did and does not, that's why she's lolzone atm). Ryze's skillshot bit is mainly because, tbh, I don't really think any CC should be non-skillshot if it's ranged other than ults like Malz or WW cause those two give up something huge to use their CC (mobility) which really helps allow the reward of the CC and being non-skillshot based since it has a high risk (long cooldown + makes them immobile).

Swain's only thing holding him back is the fact healing reductions counter him hard. Though he's not so bad as say Dr. Mundo.

And as for Karth, his problem is his entire kit is tons of damage, but he lacks really any thought to his play. And that's as someone who's played him a bit. He's got 0 thought except for his Q which is not nearly as hard to land as others like to claim. It's not like this change to his ult would severely change him, it would just require a bit more thought than he already has. I mean, I see him constantly banned in higher ELO from my friend's account or from streams. So clearly there is something about him that's keeping him from being unbanned..


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Kapucino

Senior Member

12-19-2011

The self-moderated forum is actually fine as it is. Calling everyone trolls is not going to help your case, if a large amount of people severely disagree with your post then there is obviously a reason why. Lots of people don't bother to downvote or upvote unless it really deserves it. If you're going to lose your cool on a forum, then people will obviously downvote you. If you're going to fight fire with fire then goodluck with that, just don't tell Riot to change their forum just because you're not getting what you want.

If your thread gets closed, why does it matter to keep reposting the topic? You are obviously not going to get any one to discuss it (and even then, why are you discussing so hard about a game? If your first thread got shut down then why does it matter so much?). People are going to disagree if you get into the specifics of champions because this game is so vastly different in skill levels. A champion could be donned as horrible (Cassiopeia) if the community only sees bad gameplay from that champion, but it doesn't make that champion worse than others. It would make that champion harder to learn or require more skill. Look at Evelynn for example, who most people see as useless, but she is actually still very powerful if you change your gameplay according to her nerfs.

As for all the mumbo jumbo in your posts, I hope you know that AP mages are supposed to have a very big nuke damage output. But magic resist counters magic so hard, that it's basically your own fault if you keep dying and feeding your enemy and making them stronger. AD carries are not shut down as hard as AP mages, but AD carries are hard countered by stuns and cc.

And remember, if this game was easier, it wouldn't be any fun. This is a competitive, strategic game. If you are losing really hard to certain champions, then it means you need to learn and evolve your strategy towards them.


On the topic of threads being shut down, it really is fine where its at. If you get a massive number of downvotes in a short amount of time, your thread will obviously be closed. If you get a very slow mass of downvotes, your thread won't be shut down as fast. If you get downvotes, but you also get upvotes, your thread will stay up for much longer and will tolerate downvotes more (even if your current vote value is negative).


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GodEmperorLetoII

Senior Member

12-20-2011

Except here's the thing, in every other forum on the world, people might disagree with the forum posts but they don't get shut down for just disagreement. The only reason they get shutdown (unless the place has nazi moderators) is because the posts are offensive from the start. But that doesn't happen here alot. Hell, people who come JUST to ask for advice cause they really aren't sure, even if it seems simple and obvious to others, gets attacked and trolled and their **** gets downvoted and closed in a matter of minutes.

It is a problem. If you can't recognize the problem you're seriously not paying attention.

And the point is, because the cap is like 20 or less to close it, it takes very little time for idiots who don't care to actually discuss to close a thread and then those who MIGHT actually want to discuss it can't cause they won't see the thread since it was closed when they couldn't be on. Not everyone can be on the forum 24/7 or check every single post that ever came up. Imagine if that skin QQ thread the forum downvoted it before those who are in agreement with the OP could arrive. Then no one would think there's really a problem (I still don't, but many do) and Riot would have no idea.

It's detrimental to everyone all around with how the forum is set up now. Seriously.

Oh and if you actually gave a second to read or think about my post, I wasn't trying to make the game easier, hell, no, I was actually making it more difficult by requiring people to think about when to use their abilities more and aiming them and timing them. Instead of the current ones that have herpderp click high reward, 0 risk abilities.

And seriously, you think Evelynn is fine? Even Riot admits they overnerfed her intentionally. She's not fine. She's only fine in the same sense a lot of weak heroes for competitive play are fine. Because solo queue and normals doesn't have the level of team work or "pro" play as serious games. Not enough ward coverage, not enough counter ward coverage, not enough smart ganks, people overextending, etc. Of course she'll be fine when playing against people like that. Tons of the weaker heroes are fine in that environment. But in REAL 5v5 tournament play or even 5v5 queue? Nope, she's gonna be entirely useless. And that's where the game's balance should ultimately be focused on instead of Solo Queue. Most don't seem to understand that in the community.


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GodEmperorLetoII

Senior Member

12-31-2011

bumping

And I do say, the forums could use many updates in other areas like profiles, PMs, etc.