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There should be 1 ban per player per side for draft pugs, IMO.

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Senior Member


I dont see the "a-hole" thing to do in my post, I check the accounts of pretty much everyone I see in the forum for fun, and when I saw his post and attitude and checked his profile, I found it hilarious, so I decided to put the true facts in the table, that simple.

"and they are probably playing at different levels"

They are obviously playing at different levels, that was my point. He is playing against bad players, Stimuz is playing against more competent players who actually know how to play Dominion, simple.

I dont see any arrogance in my post whatsoever. Facts =/= opinion. There cant be no arrogance in posting facts. There is however arrogance in posting opinions, like the way Chaotic stated his "opinion" (like, pretending everyone else was wrong and he is the god of all knowledge lewl).

If Heim dominates in his elo, then great, I dont care. The point is the fact that he, in a very arrogant manner, pointed out how terrible of a pick Kass/Urgot are (when in reality, when it comes to actual competent players, those 2 are one of the strongest picks in Dominion) while Heimer was the god of all gods (while in reality, when it comes to actual competent players, he is easily countered).

Attitude, my friend.

You are so amusing Frychikn. I have seen your posts in a few other threads, you are quite probably the #1 troll in the Dominion forums, congrats, I can honestly care just a bit less of what you have to say. Trolls dont deserve opinions, but Ill answer you anyway because I have the time and Im too amused.

Team game? Thats the pathetic excuse of bad players in LoL and has always been (and many people has already proven this to you over and over on your posts on other threads, but of course, you are too stubborn to see it).

This game is only a team game in 5v5 premades and to some extent in very high level solo queue play, period. There is no such thing as "team game" in low/mid elo, in any mode. Individual skill is everything. Thats why high elo players make smurfs all day and can easily carry themselves back to 2k elo every time, while bad players can never leave their low elo and say it is because of "elo hell" and whatnot.

Judging somebodies win/loss is nowhere near stupid. Or you would say a player with 10 wins and 30 losses has the same skill as a player with 30 wins and 10 losses? Furthermore, a player with 8 wins over losses in 300~ games is equally skilled as a player with 70~ wins over losses in 900~ games?

As for the 2nd part, lol? What does that have to do with anything at all? Nothing, at all.

Also, LOL at higher win percentage. I looked at your account, you have 8 wins over losses. Percentage? You are funny if you think you can measure anything by percentages. So if I make a smurf and win 4 games and lose 1, that must mean Im the most pro player ever because of course my win percentage is a mighty 80%, more than every single top elo player of Dominion. Right? No. You are a funny guy.

The rest of your post is the exact same thing you said in your first paragraph, with different words, so refer to my first point. But just in case you forgot or dont know how to scroll up, here it is for you: In low/mid elo and even in some cases of high elo, Individual skill > rest.

You want to talk "team game"? Play 5 man premades. Thats team games. Solo queue is nowhere near being a "team game" in term of the final outcome of your matches.
If individual skill didnt count for anything, like as you are saying noone can be judged for it, everyone would be the same elo, there wouldnt be good and bad players, there would be just luck and randomness.

But that is not the case, fortunately, as it has been proven over and over again for eternity thanks to the high elo players who carry themselves up from elo hell smurfs just to prove it to everyone.

Lets see whos next. Oh yeah, the king of knowledge.

Not throwing attitude hmm.. how exactly do you translate replying "Urgot is a troll pick and a joke" again? I thought so.

If it was a "statement based on my gaming experience" without an attitude, it wouldve gone more something like this "Well I dont know the Urgots in my games are usually really bad so I never have problems against them, same with Kassadins they all build manamune idk, but I find Heimer hard to counter, how do you guys counter him?" there you go, a guide to humbleness by TFOM, and you might even had the chance learn a new trick to improve your play.

"and you chose to get sorely butthurt by it" That was the funniest part, because I dont see how my main post reflects "butthurtness" at any point, and if it does, please point it out because I cant seem to find it. The butthurtness however seems to be all over the place after I posted my little fun facts.

Hey look! I know fancy words, I must be a really smart person.

I know some fancy words too check this out:


Actually I just googled that up. But they make me so smart to use them in my post

As everyone knows its always better to use fancy words than to have an actual argument in a discussion, eh?

You are totally right! By my logic, my 22 wins mean.. wait a second, what do they mean in relation to anything in my main post or even this one?

Lets see.

My post was referring to the fact that Stimuz has more knowledge on the game and a better win ratio than you, meaning that chances are he is a better player and knows best. Again, Stimuz, not me.

Lets repeat that again just in case, Stimuz. Not me. Stimuz. Not me.

Ok it should be pretty understandable so far.

Then as you can see in my post, in no single moment does it say that I am personally a top elo player, that I know better than you, that I know better than Stimuz, that I know better than God, or that I know anything at all, does it?

Thats right! Because I was never speaking for myself, since as you would see if you read what is there and not what you wanted to see there, I was once again, stating facts.

I went to a site, I collected some info, and I posted it. Does that make me a better player than you? Than Stimuz? Does that make me a good or bad player at all? The answer to all those questions is.. who cares??? Because Im not referring to my level of play, Im referring to the comparison between your level of play and Stimuz's level of play.

Easy enough isnt it?

By "your logic", we should be throwing stones and insulting the commentators of soccer matches because "HEY YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN KAKA, HOW DARE YOU SAY HE MISSED THAT GOAL??? ARE YOU BUTTHURT BECAUSE U CANT PLAY??" *turns off the tv and organizes an ambush to kill the poor soccer game commentator*

Cool story, isnt it? Im the commentator.

Sheez, that was a long one, I should probably get a life


you have too much time on your hands.

why do you take this game so serious? go outside or something, goodness.

amazes me how you think this game isnt a team game if you solo queue. if thats the case, why doesnt riot make a 1v1 map? since its not a team game?

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Senior Member


Gehn the Dark:
Right, but it would be intuitive to do this until the picks are revealed if picking bans blindly. This would then send everybody who picked the same champion back in to selection.

The picks could only be revealed to the team that picked the champ the enemies bans and pics could be shown in the load screen. This way seeing the enemies bans would give you an idea of the psychology of their team as a whole. (Oh they banned mostly assassins or oh they banned champs packing long range skill shots and so forth). This way it does not cause any waiting game. You can develop your thoughts on the enemy team fears during the lengthy load process

Alternatively, you could have the system reveal information and not allow you to ban a champ someone else has already selected. Faster, but even more blind trial and error. This could still encourage waiting and playing games with the bans too, but it would become riskier and that probably would not be an issue.

Heck you could open up the ban phase to be viewed by your team and the enemy but for the love of god don't let the captain be the only one to do it.

My argument is more "This would be annoying and ugly." and less "This could never work!". I fully admit this mostly subjective feel.

The ban process is already annoying and ugly simply because humans (including Riot balancing testers cannot really test numbers the test needs to be done by players over a time period longer then what is an acceptable development cycle for balance changes). We are just more used to the ban process as it it BECAUSE its old but the new system would likely be better as each player could ban things that annoy them. If somebody else chooses the same thing as them they get an error message and are free to choose the next most annoying champion on their hate list.

Best of all it spread choice to all members of the team. This will not effect pre-mades as people in pre-mades are accountable to their friends and can be kicked for now following the pre planned script. However this makes solo and duo queue much more bearable, to those people who climb the ladder that way. At least solo queue people could remove the champ that they cannot cope with from every one of their games. If a champ seems to be removed far more then proportions would dictate Riot has a much more clear signal the champ is problematic then the signals they receive now.

Considering a major point of draft normals is to prepare for using the draft system effectively in ranked, I think same system (whichever one) should be applied to both.

Sure apply the system to both. Just give the ban proportionally to the individual as full 5 mans will talk about their pick/bans before entering the matching system.

This is a fair point, but people are really considering from a pool of champs they consider OP, champs that are likely given the current meta, and champs that screw them over. These are smaller pools, and there's a lot of overlap between them. I'm not saying that the ban process isn't inherently hazy, but I don't think it's quite as bad as all that. There's enough to it that I'd rather see it preserved.

We have so many champions now that are over the top that even 10 bans, would not bug stomp all of them. Most pre made 5 mans will have to consider their bans vs their team comp but this never happens in solo queue where the majority of the players are bizarrely never consulted on picks and bans even if it is all random solo queue.

I think 1 ban per player is much better then requiring a 5 man pre-made to even enter ranked in terms of making the game easy to pick up and play. Though either solution would work to de-scum the greatly flawed (but traditional) pre game process.

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Senior Member


you have too much time on your hands.

why do you take this game so serious? go outside or something, goodness.

amazes me how you think this game isnt a team game if you solo queue. if thats the case, why doesnt riot make a 1v1 map? since its not a team game?

In a VERY real sense solo queue is NOT a team game. It is more a kin to a bunch of Hawks trying their individual best to swoop down on a jack rabbit and each wants to eat as much as they can of it, before the others join in. Each player is typically as annoyed with the other players on their team that do not play the way they play or make different decisions then them. Everybody thinks to themselves "that kill was mine kill stealer" and communication is VERY superficial compared to 5 friends over ventrilo. Heck you might never see supports at all except for the occasional duo queue laning pair over voice chat.

Then comes the division of labor.

Everybody in solo queue playing a carry or AP wants everybody EXCEPT themselves, to buy wards because everybody goes in thinking they will win if they can carry the bads they feel they are always "stuck with". Of course nobody acknowledges bads on the other team because if you feed on some guy it will always be attributed "your skill" and never the opponents lack of it..... which enhances the feelings that your random teammates are pushing ones ELO down.

Oh and what I love are the people that take really risky chances but will badmouth people in chat any that will do the same things they do. AKA "I judge myself only by intentions and others only by results".

From what I hear ELO hell in terms of these attitudes tends to last until somewhere well above 1700. Above that lvl people can make enough money from streaming with advertizements that suddenly the typical bad citizen of solo queue has an incentive to behave more courteously with a more realistic outlook to their own behavior. By this time however people like this leave solo queue because 5 man pre-mades looking to do tournament play often poach great solo queue guys for their teams.

That is why I want 1 ban per person. Solo queue is not a team game. Never has been never will be. You have to know your teammates as people, to think of them as anything other then a potential obstruction on ones way up the ELO ladder. Also humans are wired to think only of those who they can hear or see, as people. Most humans think nothing of flaming others when all their thoughts are are faceless, mute words on a page.

In ranked ELO your teamates that struggle early on are FAR more hated then the opposing players. Voice chat and pals or pros who play together change that dynamic but without voice chat everybody accept yourself is some anonymous "n o o b" that is not worthy to be in the same game with you according to the stated thoughts of many solo queue players to their random "teammates". At least the Tribunal makes adds a penalty to those who type out their negative attitudes.

This is why I have been reluctant to even start doing solo or even duo queue ranked as the random team I am thrown into will be strangers and hostile strangers at that.