There should be 1 ban per player per side for draft pugs, IMO.

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Phourc

Senior Member

12-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
Based on the leaders I get, AD Sion and Akali are broken and can't be countered.


/facepalm
AD sion is a pain in the butt to fight when my ignite's down, but I agree that Akali is dual weilding nerf bats atm xP


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MVpmack

Senior Member

12-15-2011

Heimer is seriously not worth a ban. If you have problems with Heimer you should stop playing bottom lane. He gets wrecked by most of the good botlane champs; he has an average matchup versus Yorick, Ryze and Soraka. He gets roflstomped by everyone else. Cassiopeia, Xerath, and Sivir utterly wreck him if they're playing even remotely competently. Kayle is a bit of a slow starter but she basically crushes him once she has a malady.

What does Heimer do against Ahri? Karthus? Hell, what does he do against freaking Mordekaiser? He's bad, man. The only reason people lose to him bot is they play bad champs bot or don't know the matchup.

TBH, Shaco and Rammus aren't that bad. Urgot is a problem for some characters; I'd consider making several targeted bans for bottom lane in order to improve that matchup more than banning characters like Akali, Shaco, or Rammus. If you force the enemy into playing a second-string botlaner like Heimer, you've won half the game right there, imo.


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NapalmBrain

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Senior Member

12-15-2011

would need 26 champs to play but I honestly don't see that as a problem because you should be that experienced to play competitive


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

12-16-2011

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Originally Posted by Stimuz View Post
What would it hurt? Tired of the same 6 OP champs needing to be banned, but aren't.
I agree this would give Riot a better statistical model then the 6 bans total you get now. Many champions would be more visible for being over powered in solo queue if Riot knew who every solo queue player was banning. Right now Riot really does not know what the problem champs are when only the team captain can do bans.... which in solo queue is not representative of the teams wishes in any way. Fix this Riot!


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

12-16-2011

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Originally Posted by lbgsloan View Post
Anything that makes the Dominion draft process longer isn't a good idea. However if everyone got 1 ban and had to all ban in the same time window, it would speed things up AND insure your team doesn't get screwed over by a clueless captain who picks weak bans when the other team has firstpick. Cut the champion selection time in half too, and I'd start playing draft a lot more.
I am glad you mentioned this. Most people don't realize you can increase the number of bans while making the ban process very short by making all people choose their bans in the same time window.

Better still you cannot be "held hostage" by the idiot bans of a clueless "random captain" in solo queue. That alone might entice me to play some ranked. Until being held hostage by a bad captain stops I have absolutely no desire to find out what my ELO is. Its not worth the frustration.

One thing however should be built into this proposed new ban system... the choice of what you ban should be anonymous. You should pick your champ and it should come up in the bans with no indication of who banned the champ that appeared in the bans box. No need for even more drama based on who banned what.

Still one ban per person in the game to be done all in the same window would push the game to greatness for people without full 5 man teams they can count on to do the right thing.


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

12-16-2011

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Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
No, because then my team would ONLY ban akali. >_<
Obviously the first person to ban her would be the one making the ban and the others would choose somebody else once they saw Ms A in the ban box..... come on get real.

Even if you batched all the bans together before revealing them you could still get a noise and an error message saying "this champion is already banned please choose another". The issue you mention is a non issue to be sure. Not even that hard to code.


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by admron View Post
In theory, an "everyone gets a ban" mode makes a lot of sense for Normal Draft, in both Dominion and SR. Hidden "Elo" aside, it would let everyone pick a champ they don't want to lane against, counters what they want to play, etc.

In practice, it would cause a lot of headaches, I'd think. It raises the minimum champion's owned to play Draft up to 20. Bans couldn't be handled simultaneously, or one team might wait to see what the other team bans before making their choices, leading to a long delay, then a last minute flurry of banning. Alternately, having bans occur in a manner similar to champ select would also cause the draft to potentially take much longer.
No simply give both teams a 10 or some such sec window for all 10 players to make their bans. In group queue NOTHING changes as people will discuss over vent what they want to play ahead of time and the better teams know the counter picks by heart. You could batch all the bans TOGETHER BEFORE they are revealed to the other team so both teams see all 10 bans all at the same time. Easy.

Frankly this change is needed captains in solo queue should not have any more ban power then their numerical proportion on the team. Even ranked would be better if played this way as the pre game discussion happens anyway and would only change slightly based on this new change.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

12-16-2011

don't you realize with that the best strat is to take as much time to ban as possible since otherwise you are banning someone the other team may ban themselves?


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

12-16-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
don't you realize with that the best strat is to take as much time to ban as possible since otherwise you are banning someone the other team may ban themselves?

Fear that the computer will choose random junk for bans will keep that BS in check. The longer you wait the more damaging a bit of lag or a miss click is with less time to choose again. Your reservation is noted but people won't wait so long that loosing their ban becomes a problem and the bans would not be shown until after they were ALL picked anyway. Even if their is a small price to be paid in the new system its after all a small price indeed then letting the mushead Mc captain choose all the bans.


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Gehn the Dark

Member

12-16-2011

As much as the current ban process takes time, I don't like the idea of simultaneous bans. It poses problems which have, at best, inelegant solutions:
If bans are done visibly, then waiting until the last moment to make bans becomes a strategy.
If bans are hidden and then revealed all at once, you have to cycle until all double-bans are resolved or end up with a random number of bans (which I suspect will generally be less than 10, perhaps much less).

Both come at the cost of gaining information from the opponents bans and using that inform your own ban decisions. Yes, I know this isn't incredibly relevant with the current state of Dominion, but closing this avenue off would seem like moving in the opposite direction to the one Dominion needs to move.