Should Kog'maw bother using his ultimate if enemy is in range of his auto-attack?

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ginga

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-12-2011

I play mostly a hybrid Kog'maw, relying on fast attack speed and magic damage from items and my W.


I can't really test something like this, so it's hard to tell what's better. Assuming two champions are standing there auto attacking each other, should Kog'maw, use his Living Artillery whenever possible or just continue auto-attacking? Which does more damage overtime?



Also...does anyone bother activating Caustic Spittle? It's range is tiny compared to Kog's auto-attack when he activates his W.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SynergyDreamer

Senior Member

12-12-2011

Not sure what about the dmg output with Living Artillery, but I'd at least try to prioritize it if: they can go invisi or into a brush. (Longshots are a given, also that's irrelevant to your question)

Caustic Spittle's actually pretty good during the laning phase, afterwards it completely drops off lmfao.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ForeverLaxx

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-12-2011

It depends on your attack speed on whether or not you should use Artillery while auto-attacking. Obviously you should use it if you think they're going to flash over a wall/go invisible so you keep vision, but generally speaking if you can't get an Artillery shot without slowing down your auto-attack speed, then don't.

Spittle is just not worth using unless they're already in range of it. You want to stay as far away as possible for as long as possible because of your lack of escape mechanics.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheNavs

Junior Member

12-12-2011

I think it largely depends on the items that are stacking into your W. If you have a bloodrazor, just keep autoattacking. If you're building more AP than AS, then maybe it would be worth it to point-blank artillery.

As for the Q, after laning it's pretty much purely defensive - if someone's that close, might as well bring it out, particularly if you've got the AP. Also, I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Q doesn't interrupt autoattacks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cenerae

Senior Member

12-12-2011

It's probably something you'd do early-mid game, before you have tons of attack speed. Weaving it in between autoattacks is a dps increase, but only if you're not actually delaying those autoattacks. Though if it's dealing sufficient damage (not sure how hard it hits on a hybrid build), you might want to use it regardless.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Warrrrax

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-13-2011

When you say Hybrid build that is a bit confusing. Most think AD/AP hybrid. It sounds like you are using the correct Attack Speed/ onhit build, using Sword of Divine, Malady, Wits End, or the like, then Bloodrazor.

In this case then no...you generally do NOT want to ult when fighting mid to lategame. I do ult early to midgame because I can time it so I can fire the Ult right after an autoattack then click on the baddie again. So I don't lose any time.

But by the time AS hits 1.6+, it is too difficult to do this without losing an autoattack. With barrage up, an autoattack will be worth about (@18), 100 physical, plus 120 barrage, plus 80 bloodrazor, plus 70 onhit dmg = 370ish. Your Ult is about worth the same damage.

TL;DR - Ult dmg = autoattack dmg, so ONLY Ult if you can do so without losing a full attack.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cenerae

Senior Member

12-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
When you say Hybrid build that is a bit confusing. Most think AD/AP hybrid. It sounds like you are using the correct Attack Speed/ onhit build, using Sword of Divine, Malady, Wits End, or the like, then Bloodrazor.

In this case then no...you generally do NOT want to ult when fighting mid to lategame. I do ult early to midgame because I can time it so I can fire the Ult right after an autoattack then click on the baddie again. So I don't lose any time.

But by the time AS hits 1.6+, it is too difficult to do this without losing an autoattack. With barrage up, an autoattack will be worth about (@18), 100 physical, plus 120 barrage, plus 80 bloodrazor, plus 70 onhit dmg = 370ish. Your Ult is about worth the same damage.

TL;DR - Ult dmg = autoattack dmg, so ONLY Ult if you can do so without losing a full attack.
If you're talking about 'correct' builds, the actual strongest build is a generic AD carry build. Onhit is good too, but it's all magic damage. AD Kog is much harder to itemise against.

Just a little nitpick there.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eledhan

Senior Member

12-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae View Post
If you're talking about 'correct' builds, the actual strongest build is a generic AD carry build. Onhit is good too, but it's all magic damage. AD Kog is much harder to itemise against.

Just a little nitpick there.
This is not true...

All champions receive passive armor increases, armor is cheaper than MR (but has the same reducing effect), and thornmail is not a hard counter for an AS on-hit build.

All of these combined, plus the fact that I have actually run the numbers with typical target resistances at various stages of the game, AS on-hit will deal significantly more DPS than an AD build. Plus, you get the added benefits of the armor and MR from your AS items.

Although I agree that you can just buy MR to counter Kog's damage, you shouldn't be building Kog this way unless your team already has enough physical damage.

As for the OP's question, I try to wait until I have champions on the run before I ult, and then I try to lead them into my ultimate. I've nabbed many, many kills this way!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bhikshu

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-13-2011

OP, Caustic spittle might not seem like much, but it can be really, REALLY useful. The 25 reduction might not seem like much, but it can make focusing people down during teamfights easier. While in a 1v1 you won't do much more damage, doing it to some poor sod caught out of position while in range of your team is awesome.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Warrrrax

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-13-2011

Spittle is pretty worthless. Its range is 600. Your autoattack range is 710 now I believe. Your Puke range is 1000 and your Ult range is much further.

Unless they jump right in your face, you never want to Spittle them first... it almost always winds up slowing you down or putting you at risk. If they DO gapclose you or happen to be close, great. Use it! Otherwise don't.

Quote:
AD Kog is much harder to itemise against.
Seriously are you ever going to quit spewing this bull****?

AD Kog - does all physical damage, except for 120 magical damage vs 2k health foe.

AS/onhit Kog - Does all magical damage except for 150 physical damage. (based on 100ish base AD, 20 from a frozen mallet/phage, 30 from bloodrazor)

Which of those seems harder to itemize against?


12