How much survivability is too much?

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MrGrimm999

The Council

10-05-2009

In dota, virtually everyone starts out with a few bracers, in this game, the fighter/assassin/tank type heros can try something similar by getting a phage.

I am curious as to how much survivability everyone thinks fighter/assassin type heros need in LoL. Surely everyone will agree that a phage or so on Yi or Ty or Twitch or Ashe would be useful, but at what point are you do you have so much survivability and no damage that you aren't really as useful to your team anymore. I know all of us have been in games where you start out getting survivability items and the enemy team has that nice balance of tanks and you realise in an early team fight that you just don't do any damage to be useful. And after the enemy team promptly ignores you while killing your friends, they eventually get around to either killing you, scaring you off, or killing your base.

I have read a lot of guides and while I respect guide writers like veritas who have the opinion that you must max out survivability first before you get damage to support your team, the question is, how much survivability is too much? With what heros is it okay to ditch survivability and go straight for damage, if any? And, does this entirely depend on the team matchups?

I'll start off by stating some of the obvious. If a hero is extremely hard to kill and gank, and generally is one of the last to die in a team fight, then in theory, it should be okay for that hero to get less survivability and more damage output. Heros like Ashe and Twitch come to mind. If you are a decent player and you know when to get back, when to watch for ganks and when to help your team, you should very rarely be dieing first with these heros, which leads me to believe they are much better off getting a ton of damage as quickly as possible so they can start making a difference in a team fight. Nothing is more frustrating than playing as Ashe and the enemy team to just ignore you becuase you do so little damage you can't affect a team fight in any way.

Other heros that need to be in the middle of the action, Ty, Yi, Jax obviously need more survivability. What is everyones general thought on this matter? And what items would be standard to get on 'survivability dependent' hero killsers?


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Veritas

The Council

10-05-2009

It all depends on the game really. You can't just make it static. If you're doing really well and it looks like you aren't dying or having any issues with survivability, then there's no reason you can't pick up damage items. If you're having trouble in a lane though, then a BF sword isn't going to stop a Malphite or Warwick ult. It's annoying when you first start playing since you won't know what works, but it gets better as time goes on.


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SmecssRaege

Senior Member

10-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas View Post
It all depends on the game really. You can't just make it static. If you're doing really well and it looks like you aren't dying or having any issues with survivability, then there's no reason you can't pick up damage items. If you're having trouble in a lane though, then a BF sword isn't going to stop a Malphite or Warwick ult. It's annoying when you first start playing since you won't know what works, but it gets better as time goes on.
I pretty much agree with this statement 100%

It's all dependant on a game by game basis.

on average i do have general guidelines i shoot for though:


Melees:
2.7k hp 130ish armor via frozen mallet/atma's combo

Ranged:
2.2k hp 80ish armor 40 MS via banshee's veil usually

Tanks
3-3.5k hp 300-450 armor, 80-150 MR
via:

Chalice of harmony
wardens mail
ninja tabi
frozen heart (or guardian angel if you dont need/want CD reduction)
warmog's or frozen mallet
force of nature or banshee's veil or thornmail


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BubbleGumGurlxx69

Junior Member

10-08-2009

well i definitely don't think you should get bracers as gangplank.


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SmecssRaege

Senior Member

10-08-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleGumGurlxx69 View Post
well i definitely don't think you should get bracers as gangplank.
True that XD


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Motas

Senior Member

10-08-2009

I'll tell you, a 7.3k health Cho'gath isn't worth it on your team without Atma's Impaler, nuff said