Why all the ap shacos?

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IIxeenoxII

Senior Member

12-12-2011

So what is wrong with hybrid shaco? I played a game as him yesterday and did fairly well. His dmg boost when enemies run helps his crits so he doesnt really need a ton of ad items built to do dmg . I did build DFG, Trinity, Gunblade. I didnt build defensively because I figure that I am squishy either way you put it and I relied on my abilities to escape, which worked out fine.


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Epiphanyinc

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12-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIxeenoxII View Post
So what is wrong with hybrid shaco? I played a game as him yesterday and did fairly well. His dmg boost when enemies run helps his crits so he doesnt really need a ton of ad items built to do dmg . I did build DFG, Trinity, Gunblade. I didnt build defensively because I figure that I am squishy either way you put it and I relied on my abilities to escape, which worked out fine.
I wouldn't know, I've never seen a hybrid Shaco before.


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Psi21

Senior Member

12-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epiphanyinc View Post
These are all real good points, but a ranged with oracles removes boxes from both AD and AP's possibilities where as AD usually puts a box behind the person they attack to fear them so they get more hits in. Though you realize most AP Shaco's you'll get randomly dont ever get deathfire grasp and think their soul purpose is to hide behind boxes and do nothing. I have only encountered less than 10 "good" AP Shacos since I started last December. Just to not seem biased I will mix in some AP Shaco matches with my AD matches, mixing up the builds for AP a bit to make up for the (didn't get to pick Shaco rounds in my match history) I swear some people must have him on auto lock in.

(The aim of what I'm talking about is dominion though, theres just too many people who do horrible with AP that say AD is not viable at all.)
Surprising since DFG works with passive too


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Epiphanyinc

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12-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi21 View Post
Surprising since DFG works with passive too


Finally I have received a match against a AP shaco that DIDN'T suck. he was just as in your facey as I was but relied on shiv more so than DFG + shiv. Wish I could have fought him a while longer, His AP burst was on par with my DPS because he didn't play like a coward and just hide behind box nest 24/7. He was deceptive too Skystormer was his name, if anyone sees him give him a cookie, seemed to be a good sport too. Unless those funny jokes was insults :| Just wow that was fun even while losing!

Edit: Anyone know how to deal with unrecognized fraps format issue in sony vegas? It randomly leaves one huge portion of my clip with no picture but the sound stays, and if it doesn't do that it kinda just has annoying vcr static on it? If no one knows how to fix it I'll keep rerendering it till the dark spots are gone or only last a few seconds


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Argodis

Senior Member

12-12-2011

AP Shaco falls into the same category and backdoor Evelynn and Twitch, and boots of mobility Rammus. Only great at pub stomping.

I prefer having an AD Shaco on my team.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argodis View Post
AP Shaco is great at pub stomping.

I prefer having an AD Shaco on my team.
This.

I don't understand why this debate is still here when AP Shaco is a champion that is extremely susceptible to counter play.

Don't get hit by clone, push minions, stay out of jungle, buy an oracle.


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Psi21

Senior Member

12-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitcurtsed View Post
This.

I don't understand why this debate is still here when AP Shaco is a champion that is extremely susceptible to counter play.

Don't get hit by clone, push minions, stay out of jungle, buy an oracle.
Both Shaco's can be countered.

If you enjoy AD Shaco for your bracket in Dominion all the more power to you.

But saying you think a good AP Shaco is going to allow you to avoid his clone is just naive.
And remember you push minions for AP Shaco you don't have to when AD Shaco is trying to guard a point.
Staying out of the jungle doesn't give your team the strategic advantage.


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The Wrongsword

Senior Member

12-12-2011

well remember its very easy to be a bad shaco, either AP or AD. Lots of shacos just plain suck no matter how they build him.

Both are equally squishy IF they get targeted but a good AP shaco hardly ever dies because they can keep deceive up for escapes. AD shaco relies on deceive to go in for kills, which can be fine if you are 1v1 but it means they are very vulnerable if they get targeted after the deceive.

AP good ap shaco is better at boxing towers and the jungle and backdooring, AD shaco will have both higher kills and higher deaths but IMO is overly reliant on the ult to be any good and sucks at using boxes for defense so I dont like the build.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

12-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi21 View Post
But saying you think a good AP Shaco is going to allow you to avoid his clone is just naive.
What can an AP Shaco do to stop me from avoiding it again?

Quote:
And remember you push minions for AP Shaco you don't have to when AD Shaco is trying to guard a point.
Not true at all. I love boxing the 3-way path next to points. If they hit my box, its a free 500-1000 crit (mid-late game) for me. Plus, then I'm on top of you with my ultimate and the box hitting you. He is a similar potent defender because AD Shaco is the true duelist Shaco. Not the hit and run Shaco.

Quote:
Staying out of the jungle doesn't give your team the strategic advantage.
Its a loong walk my friend.


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slowfiveoh

Senior Member

12-12-2011

Rabadons, Lich Bane, Morellos, with an optional IE if you have time.

AP Shaco often ends up last place because he is best used to interrupt and harass jungle.

For the record, with a flat ap page and appropriate masteries, this build I have listed will deceive for 1k, hit for 150 per shot, per box, and throw an 850 damage Shiv with enough CD off of Morellos to lay boxes down.

AD Shaco is good but I always laugh so hard when my deceive is up and I run into an AD shacos ambush prepping boxes and they hit me for flowers. I simply deceive out in a creative fashion and continue shenanigans.

AD is great for boomboom deceives but brings nothing worth anything to the rest of his kit. AP scales better for shiv and boxes, and, if you try the build I provide above I guarantee it will make you smile.

As to being in the jungle, well if you control the path leading to your side of the map, and/or especially stacked jitbs on the approach to the windmill, you are more than paying your way.