i think i've found a 'main' for bot--cassi

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VeggieDealer

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Senior Member

12-10-2011

who plays dominion...


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Scrubsicle

Senior Member

12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
while maokai is great at sustaining against cassi, i don't think he can stand up to her pushing power--especially early game.

j4 would probably be pretty scary, but i've literally never seen him as a bot pick aside from nekrogen's stream. when the day comes that i see him though, i'm sure i'll hate life.
Clearly you have not seen the power of the sapling. Early game, it can take out a third of her health if you get the impact/explosion damage. Also takes out at least half of the minion's hp from the get go.

I play Jarvan bot under three conditions:
1) Our current bot is horrendous
2) Enemy team counterpicks our bot
3) My team is being dumb and forgets to pick a bot at the champion select screen

Even so, Jarvan is a very strong bot against a slew of commonly picked bots. So if you see one, and it's not Nekrogen, it's probably me.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

12-10-2011
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen View Post
Cassio is my new bottom lane pickup as well. Thoroughly counters Ryze and many other bottom laners. Probably the only champion I still run Flash+Promote on (ganks are a problem)
i've been running revive + promote as gank insurance, but flash/ghost might be a better idea just for the lower cooldown. i guess my only concern is that if i don't escape the gank in great condition i might have to recall anyway.

time to experiment!


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mufins

Senior Member

12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
yeah, i know she's good and that she's vulnerable to ganks (learned the hard way on that one...) but i was more curious about matchups against other bot champs. like, if she struggles against ryze for example, and if so what is the counter-play in those cases.

i've been eating heimer up so far--i just wish i saw other champs in bot so i could practice against them. :\

from personal experience, cass should completely destroy ryze. ryze has a very weak early laning phase and you are almost guaranteed to neutralize his tower before he gets 6. when ryze gets some mr he will want to 1v1 you because his greatest strength is building tanky items to counter his opponent and forcing 1v1s. if you deny him bush control he will never be able to get close and will at best be able to freeze the lane.

vs yorick i have no clue. yorick is always first banned in my games. i haven't played against one in months lol.

heimer falls apart to any champion that can kill his turrets without eating rockets.

vs malz i actually don't know. they can both freeze the lane vs each other so it would be impossible for one to win the lane by pushing. cass techincally has better harassment but a good malz should never be bullied by a cass because his E does all the pushing for him. if both teams are actively trying to gank bot, i would say malz has the advantage because he doesn't have to be directly involved in the minion wave to push it, he just has to plant his E and watch from a distance.

also some tips in general about bot lane.
- catalyst is bar none the absolute best item to start with in bot lane. if you started a catalyst and your opponent didn't, you are guaranteed to outpush or kill him. its like a perma blue buff that applies to your health. its truly a ludicrous item on dominion.

- always always check the summoners of your opponent. if they went something like exhaust/ignite that means they really really really want to force a 1v1 fight at the beginning. if you keep your distance and push with promote and range spells, they will eventually get overwhelmed by minions. the opposite can be said for garrison/promote meaning they want to play a passive pushing game. i personally go flash promote since it helps me survive ganks and gives me good pushing presence in the early stages.

- there are two zones that you will have to choose between when laning; the health pick up zone and the bushes. bushes give you superior harassing capabilities and the health helps you sustain. if your letting your opponent have both your doing something wrong.


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Nekrogen

Senior Member

12-10-2011

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Originally Posted by mufins View Post
- there are two zones that you will have to choose between when laning; the health pick up zone and the bushes. bushes give you superior harassing capabilities and the health helps you sustain. if your letting your opponent have both your doing something wrong.
Or you can stay by relic and fire your W into the bushes XD.

Truth be told, I put 2 levels into W right away then 1 of each into Q and E, then put a 3rd point into W at level 5. I then max R->E->Q->W. The early slow potential bottom lane is fundamental to success imo.


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mufins

Senior Member

12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen View Post
Or you can stay by relic and fire your W into the bushes XD.

Truth be told, I put 2 levels into W right away then 1 of each into Q and E, then put a 3rd point into W at level 5. I then max R->E->Q->W. The early slow potential bottom lane is fundamental to success imo.
nekro you don't need to concern yourself with such problems when you duo que with a talon that ganks your lane every 2 minutes :b.


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dirkDiGgYDIGGLER

Member

12-10-2011

I've had a lot of success going top with Cass as well. My favorite part is how you can set up ganks in the jungle bushes/corners with 1-2 other people. If their team comes through piecemeal at all you will just tear them apart. Plus if your team has the advantage you can run to their side and poison them as they come into the jungle/approach the speed pads and really give your team an advantage in the next fight.


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Nekrogen

Senior Member

12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by mufins View Post
nekro you don't need to concern yourself with such problems when you duo que with a talon that ganks your lane every 2 minutes :b.
Same goes for other people ganking me bro, which is why I mentioned flash and leveling slow. Not only do these provide excellent finisher options, but also become infinitely useful for escaping ganks and high mobility champs (Kass excluded). Yeah I have my buddies gank bot a bunch, but that doesn't mean "their" buddies don't either. Gotta look at it from both angles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mufins View Post
Gragas would be a better choice imo. im sure nekro can you tell you all about him :b
Meh, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I love running Gragas bottom, but not against Ryze or Urgot. Cassio stands a fairly good chance against both mentioned, but is much riskier to play without flash or a consistent slow.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

12-10-2011
5 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen View Post
Truth be told, I put 2 levels into W right away then 1 of each into Q and E, then put a 3rd point into W at level 5. I then max R->E->Q->W. The early slow potential bottom lane is fundamental to success imo.
i've been focusing E for creep control--if i want the wave pushed out, i E down their heavy minions. if i want them to slow push, i can opt not to use it. also, i love E harassment...

imo, cassi is one of the elite few that has the problem of all her skills being worth maxing out first. i'm sure i'll need at least another 50 games or so before i can say decisively how i'd play her--i wish i had more free time.


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mufins

Senior Member

12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekrogen View Post
Same goes for other people ganking me bro, which is why I mentioned flash and leveling slow. Not only do these provide excellent finisher options, but also become infinitely useful for escaping ganks and high mobility champs (Kass excluded). Yeah I have my buddies gank bot a bunch, but that doesn't mean "their" buddies don't either. Gotta look at it from both angles.



Meh, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I love running Gragas bottom, but not against Ryze or Urgot. Cassio stands a fairly good chance against both mentioned, but is much riskier to play without flash or a consistent slow.
well regardless i think your forcing a meta shift with your fukn op premade "gank bot every chance you guys get" strat which in turn is forcing out champions like cass/malz and even ryze who have no escape. It seems like bot lane is slowly shifting into an SR laning phase with champions able to freeze lanes vs each other and ganks becoming the only thing that actually win the lane. not sure if thats a good or bad thing =/.