Twisted TreeLine 3v3 Tier List

First Riot Post
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Natriumon

Junior Member

08-10-2012

Hey there, i got some stuff i wanted to ask you after reading this. I didn't read through previous comments as this thread is HUGE.

As a EUW player, where Ranged AD/Support/AP setup is very common in high elo, I was wondering why you have some ranged AD in an incredibly low tier 3. I'm guessing it's just not used very often in NA 3v3? I myself am currently 'only' at 1752, our 3rd player took a month break so we are currently stalled on this elo.

A setup such as Alistar/Corki/Morgana is an insanely powerful one. Both lanes are nigh impossible to gank, especially since Alistar will provide ward coverage. Corki can farm freely because Alistar will deflect any ganks with his CC and corki's damage. And you can just push out the lane and go take all the jungle together if denying/killing the enemy solo is not an option. Ofcourse your support does need to pick up smite (or play nunu). Only a handful of AD is viable though; Corki, Ezreal, Vayne, Graves. Same for supports, only the high CC or aggressive supports are viable. The AP pick is unimportant as long as it is fairly safe from ganks and has some utility to offer

Some other champions that i found highly misplaced were Anivia, Taric, Alistar and Leona.

Anivia is an exceptional 3v3 AP because of the very narrow corridors in which most fights occur. Especially against a more melee orientated setup her wall can win the game easily. I wouldn't say Godtier but bottom tier 1 or tier 2 is definitly deserved. Her biggest weakness is imba early game setups that focus purely on ganking. If you can get past lv 6 however you will become very hard to gank and your zoning capabilities and damage lategame are especially strong in dragon control. She actually functions in a very similar way to Zyra, she has similar zoning control. Admittedly, you have to build around her a bit more than you have to with a flexible champion such as Gragas or Morg. She doesn't fare well at all in a Ranged AD setup, she's better with 2 bruisers protecting her. If you adapt your mana-usage you can easily manage a whole game with just RoA, though upgraded chalice is a nice later addition.

As for the supports i just mentioned, i guess i already explained why i think they are misplaced. Do note that these are not always full-support. My team usually lets them take some farm too and they can easily go clear some jungle with smite alone if your AD is fairly safe. Especially Nunu with smite can basically go jungle, only supporting when there are no buffs to secure or when AD is struggling. Because of this you will both keep up in levels with the solo while all lane-farm goes to AD and supports gets some free cash too.

I hope you can give me a detailed reply back. I will ofcourse keep playing my own style regardless of your opinion but i am truly interested in what you have to say about it. Agree with pretty much 95% of this tierlist though so sorry if I sound a bit whiny =p Good addition to the LoL Community *thumbs up*


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Realyst

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Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natriumon View Post
Hey there, i got some stuff i wanted to ask you after reading this. I didn't read through previous comments as this thread is HUGE.

As a EUW player, where Ranged AD/Support/AP setup is very common in high elo, I was wondering why you have some ranged AD in an incredibly low tier 3. I'm guessing it's just not used very often in NA 3v3? I myself am currently 'only' at 1752, our 3rd player took a month break so we are currently stalled on this elo.

A setup such as Alistar/Corki/Morgana is an insanely powerful one. Both lanes are nigh impossible to gank, especially since Alistar will provide ward coverage. Corki can farm freely because Alistar will deflect any ganks with his CC and corki's damage. And you can just push out the lane and go take all the jungle together if denying/killing the enemy solo is not an option. Ofcourse your support does need to pick up smite (or play nunu). Only a handful of AD is viable though; Corki, Ezreal, Vayne, Graves. Same for supports, only the high CC or aggressive supports are viable. The AP pick is unimportant as long as it is fairly safe from ganks and has some utility to offer

Some other champions that i found highly misplaced were Anivia, Taric, Alistar and Leona.

Anivia is an exceptional 3v3 AP because of the very narrow corridors in which most fights occur. Especially against a more melee orientated setup her wall can win the game easily. I wouldn't say Godtier but bottom tier 1 or tier 2 is definitly deserved. Her biggest weakness is imba early game setups that focus purely on ganking. If you can get past lv 6 however you will become very hard to gank and your zoning capabilities and damage lategame are especially strong in dragon control. She actually functions in a very similar way to Zyra, she has similar zoning control. Admittedly, you have to build around her a bit more than you have to with a flexible champion such as Gragas or Morg. She doesn't fare well at all in a Ranged AD setup, she's better with 2 bruisers protecting her. If you adapt your mana-usage you can easily manage a whole game with just RoA, though upgraded chalice is a nice later addition.

As for the supports i just mentioned, i guess i already explained why i think they are misplaced. Do note that these are not always full-support. My team usually lets them take some farm too and they can easily go clear some jungle with smite alone if your AD is fairly safe. Especially Nunu with smite can basically go jungle, only supporting when there are no buffs to secure or when AD is struggling. Because of this you will both keep up in levels with the solo while all lane-farm goes to AD and supports gets some free cash too.

I hope you can give me a detailed reply back. I will ofcourse keep playing my own style regardless of your opinion but i am truly interested in what you have to say about it. Agree with pretty much 95% of this tierlist though so sorry if I sound a bit whiny =p Good addition to the LoL Community *thumbs up*
It was the same deal with WoW arena picks compared to EU players. In the EU, you'd see the top teams being complicated and skilled Rogue, Mage, Priest or Rogue, Hunter, Paladin setups. Meanwhile in the US, all the top tier teams are the no-skill, faceroll Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin/Shaman comps. The US teams tend to pick the easiest possible win teams, where as the EU teams actually branch out and look for the best team on paper, so to speak.


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Sam

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trythall View Post
vsepr played akali vs diana in ranked 3v3, and diana is more stronger, believe me! lol..
her damage is insane
I thought vsepr won lane though :O


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Sam

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natriumon View Post
Hey there, i got some stuff i wanted to ask you after reading this. I didn't read through previous comments as this thread is HUGE.

As a EUW player, where Ranged AD/Support/AP setup is very common in high elo, I was wondering why you have some ranged AD in an incredibly low tier 3. I'm guessing it's just not used very often in NA 3v3? I myself am currently 'only' at 1752, our 3rd player took a month break so we are currently stalled on this elo.

A setup such as Alistar/Corki/Morgana is an insanely powerful one. Both lanes are nigh impossible to gank, especially since Alistar will provide ward coverage. Corki can farm freely because Alistar will deflect any ganks with his CC and corki's damage. And you can just push out the lane and go take all the jungle together if denying/killing the enemy solo is not an option. Ofcourse your support does need to pick up smite (or play nunu). Only a handful of AD is viable though; Corki, Ezreal, Vayne, Graves. Same for supports, only the high CC or aggressive supports are viable. The AP pick is unimportant as long as it is fairly safe from ganks and has some utility to offer

Some other champions that i found highly misplaced were Anivia, Taric, Alistar and Leona.

Anivia is an exceptional 3v3 AP because of the very narrow corridors in which most fights occur. Especially against a more melee orientated setup her wall can win the game easily. I wouldn't say Godtier but bottom tier 1 or tier 2 is definitly deserved. Her biggest weakness is imba early game setups that focus purely on ganking. If you can get past lv 6 however you will become very hard to gank and your zoning capabilities and damage lategame are especially strong in dragon control. She actually functions in a very similar way to Zyra, she has similar zoning control. Admittedly, you have to build around her a bit more than you have to with a flexible champion such as Gragas or Morg. She doesn't fare well at all in a Ranged AD setup, she's better with 2 bruisers protecting her. If you adapt your mana-usage you can easily manage a whole game with just RoA, though upgraded chalice is a nice later addition.

As for the supports i just mentioned, i guess i already explained why i think they are misplaced. Do note that these are not always full-support. My team usually lets them take some farm too and they can easily go clear some jungle with smite alone if your AD is fairly safe. Especially Nunu with smite can basically go jungle, only supporting when there are no buffs to secure or when AD is struggling. Because of this you will both keep up in levels with the solo while all lane-farm goes to AD and supports gets some free cash too.

I hope you can give me a detailed reply back. I will ofcourse keep playing my own style regardless of your opinion but i am truly interested in what you have to say about it. Agree with pretty much 95% of this tierlist though so sorry if I sound a bit whiny =p Good addition to the LoL Community *thumbs up*
Mhm. I'm really not sure about the whole ad/support and ap lanes. Can you tell me where would they both be? The thing with that is what's the point with CC if you have no dmg output. I remember I got season one gold 1900's in 3s with alistar with nerfs and then I realize his ap scales are just too low to even be useful. I mean the whole set up seems really nice and probably would work... I just don't know. Cause in the U.S. scene if you have a jungler you guys are down in gold/kills, just smite stealing can change your outcome, I'm not totally sure what an ad carry/support and an ap carry can do to get back in the game if they are down in gold/kills.

Also if you play the whole ad/support bot lane, an ap gragas can easily clear the wave and just get gp5s so it's kinda useless to have 2 bot lane. Cause i've said multiply times a support in 3s just doesn't seem to work as strongly as having a jungler in the scene.

And anivia... Mhm. She is just way to squishy, wayyyyy tooooooo squishy. Most ap carries in the tier god - 1 can easily destroy her in lane. And once she is down in cs/lvls what can an anivia do? She would barely be able to turtle*. But please explain more on the whole anivia and her laning phase, would really like to know D!


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Realyst

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Såm View Post
Mhm. I'm really not sure about the whole ad/support and ap lanes. Can you tell me where would they both be? The thing with that is what's the point with CC if you have no dmg output. I remember I got season one gold 1900's in 3s with alistar with nerfs and then I realize his ap scales are just too low to even be useful. I mean the whole set up seems really nice and probably would work... I just don't know. Cause in the U.S. scene if you have a jungler you guys are down in gold/kills, just smite stealing can change your outcome, I'm not totally sure what an ad carry/support and an ap carry can do to get back in the game if they are down in gold/kills.

Also if you play the whole ad/support bot lane, an ap gragas can easily clear the wave and just get gp5s so it's kinda useless to have 2 bot lane. Cause i've said multiply times a support in 3s just doesn't seem to work as strongly as having a jungler in the scene.

And anivia... Mhm. She is just way to squishy, wayyyyy tooooooo squishy. Most ap carries in the tier god - 1 can easily destroy her in lane. And once she is down in cs/lvls what can an anivia do? She would barely be able to turtle*. But please explain more on the whole anivia and her laning phase, would really like to know D!
I remember early Season 1, where bruisers didn't have gap closers, and Anivia was the king of AP. Her R covered the whole lane and there was literally no way through it but to Flash. If you Flashed, she would Icewall stun you (before the nerfed it to not stun anymore), then point blank Iceball your face. She was pretty unstoppable. Late game, her R would clear a full minion wave within 2s flat, even Supers.


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Trythall

Junior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Såm View Post
I thought vsepr won lane though :O
yes, but 20 minutes later, when Akali was fed .. i think diana is better than akali, my opinion


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Natriumon

Junior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Såm View Post
Mhm. I'm really not sure about the whole ad/support and ap lanes. Can you tell me where would they both be? The thing with that is what's the point with CC if you have no dmg output. I remember I got season one gold 1900's in 3s with alistar with nerfs and then I realize his ap scales are just too low to even be useful. I mean the whole set up seems really nice and probably would work... I just don't know. Cause in the U.S. scene if you have a jungler you guys are down in gold/kills, just smite stealing can change your outcome, I'm not totally sure what an ad carry/support and an ap carry can do to get back in the game if they are down in gold/kills.

Also if you play the whole ad/support bot lane, an ap gragas can easily clear the wave and just get gp5s so it's kinda useless to have 2 bot lane. Cause i've said multiply times a support in 3s just doesn't seem to work as strongly as having a jungler in the scene.

And anivia... Mhm. She is just way to squishy, wayyyyy tooooooo squishy. Most ap carries in the tier god - 1 can easily destroy her in lane. And once she is down in cs/lvls what can an anivia do? She would barely be able to turtle*. But please explain more on the whole anivia and her laning phase, would really like to know D!
The Ranged AD setup is not by any means the best set-up but it can definitly beat some more 'traditional' setups.

Basically why this works is because jungle 3v3 is pretty much about dominance. Full-jungle works because you can get some nice ganks off or otherwise get quite nice gold with buffcreeps. Duo-lane is very hard to gank which takes out one advantage of jungler. The other is that you can deny/kill the solo. Or you can push and deny/kill the jungler. Either way, one of the two will be screwed if you play this correctly.

The biggest downside of this setup is that you cannot afford much mistakes as your AD will be too weak and it will be hard to farm safely. Failing to deny the solo (e.g. he freezes lane permanently) and also failing to get anything important out of the jungle puts you way behind. Once you lose momentum in this setup it will backfire on you, completely losing all jungle control. This works both ways, if you do get a nice couple kills / dragon off you can get back in the game quickly but they will have to mess things up badly.

About the damage on the support's side. Don't underestimate their damage early game. They might scale horribad but early game they still hurt, especially with the AD pounding away and with the CC. It is generally not hard to feed your AD a couple of kills early game and he will carry you later on.

I hope i described that well enough. I personally favor the more traditional jungler setup as well, I just wanted to know why you thought ranged AD were so mediocre. I have played AD setup plenty of times and it's really nice and i've definitly had my butt handed to me by this setup several times too.

As a sidenote; this setup is also very nice against Singed, should your enemy be able to pick him (everyone hates him in 3v3). Singed is weak early and either he will get denied/killed, or he will just push and go back. Both cases your AD gets very fed and just poops on Singed and his teammates.

You don't have to go with a traditional support though. We play with Galio as sort of support often. He will take some gp/5 but he will not go Aegis/Zeke's/Shurelia's and stuff.

As for Anivia; yes she is weak early game but she will be as squishy as you make her. The first couple levels are harsh and you might get behind in CS a bit. Just let them be, the wave will be pushed to you eventually. Then just freeze it, get your levels. Maybe they will get a free early red buff, as long as you keep that lane frozen (or at least on your side of the map) they can't do a thing. Just make sure your teammates take care too. WIth RoA and Chalice (and egg) it's already hard to kill her with all the CC she has. She doesn't have that much problems with most APs, it's more the bruisers with gapclosers that mess her up. Zyra is pretty frustrating though, too slow to dodge her stuff, getting in range for your E just gets you rooted and nuked =[

I just have this passive style of play because i used to main Kassadin in 3v3 (yes Kassadin) and i could make it work. Nowadays with new champions like Lee Sin, Darius, Riven he is not remotely viable anymore but i still have that sense of play with Anivia.

Now that i think of how much effort there is in making Anivia work i do realize bottom of T1 might be a bit optimistic. Still definitly T2 worthy imo. You should give her a try one day ^^

Thanks for the response by the way. It's really interesting to see how different playstyles can be on different servers. This actually reminds me of how NA used to play roamer and EU just played AD/support bot, very opposite mindsets and again NA being on the more agressive side ^^


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Orzel EU

Junior Member

08-10-2012

I will help my friend a bit, I hope. He's just the botlane. No clue about toplane! :P
The thing that happens alot EUW is 2 top - usually ad carry + support or hard scaling bruiser + support. The support takes smite for dragon and buffs.
Against the jungle thing, they usually push the lane really hard, so that the top laner cant really move away while they invade the jungle - either taking jungle creeps to cripple the jungler or catching the jungler himself.
Toplaner cant really help (mana, health, losing alot exp, or still low level because he got zoned) Both botlaner should be same skill , so bot cant help either.
Usually you can find a ward at wraiths/wolves buff, since jungler are very very vulnerable at that position.
This leads into this situation -
Either the jungler can make a play and snowball from it or he gets completly denied. (level 5 jungler while everyone level 8-10, really horrible :/)
He cant move to ''your'' side of the jungle to gain exp there because of the top ward and you might even steal some of the creeps from his side, leading to a weak jungler.
Lategame the AD comp is usually inferior, just because AD carrys counters bruisers so hard.
So yeah...we saw it going both ways and usually jungler need to make plays to win.
And I hope I made everything clearer...and not more confusing!


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Boo

Senior Member

08-10-2012

well i hope people are slowly realizing that dedicated jungling is outdated and really not that great. barely any champions can pull it off and if the person jungling is not exceptional at it, it can cost you games. the EU scene is a step ahead of us imo when it comes to having the support take smite but i think that right now 2 bruisers + AP support is pretty broken. you can do 1 AD carry + 1 bruiser + 1 support too, but it suffers the same viability issue that junglers have. i can only name 3 good AD carries in 3v3 right now.


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Orzel EU

Junior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo View Post
well i hope people are slowly realizing that dedicated jungling is outdated and really not that great. barely any champions can pull it off and if the person jungling is not exceptional at it, it can cost you games. the EU scene is a step ahead of us imo when it comes to having the support take smite but i think that right now 2 bruisers + AP support is pretty broken. you can do 1 AD carry + 1 bruiser + 1 support too, but it suffers the same viability issue that junglers have. i can only name 3 good AD carries in 3v3 right now.
Some people do that too in high elo eu, running things like Shen/Morgana with Riven/Darius/Irelia or something like that.