This mode feels wrong

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Arctic Lucian

Senior Member

03-30-2014

I'm not here to rant and ask for the old map, because that won't happen. However, there are some things that I think could change.


Here are my propositions:

1. Items. I liked it a lot more when the items where identical to 5v5. I don't mind some things like GA getting left out, but there is no reason to have dominion items on a lane progression map.

2. Vision. We need more bushes and the possibility to place a ward for a hugely increased price.

3. Altars. They bring interesting mechanics to the game, but I wish they weren't the main focus of the game. I like that controlling both of them is rewarded with bonus damage, but I don't think it should give increased gold to have one.

4. Remove that health shrine in the middle. They just don't belong.

5. Reduce the wall sizes. I feel like there isn't a lot of space to walk because the walls are so huge. Reduce walls and add bushes.


What do you guys think? Please don't hate, only post your opinions.


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pillowman25

Junior Member

03-30-2014

Well regarding your second point, I would disagree. I think if you consider how small the map is and the limited routes to travel, allowing a ward(presumably 1 per player) would be too "powerful". I'm not too familiar with the items, but if one doesn't already exist a scrying orb kind of trinket item would be cool.
Also I agree with 5. It feels really awkward and slow when you walk around the wall from the base immediately in the jungle.


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Rugalb98

Senior Member

03-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock Jockey View Post
I'm not here to rant and ask for the old map, because that won't happen. However, there are some things that I think could change.


Here are my propositions:

1. Items. I liked it a lot more when the items where identical to 5v5. I don't mind some things like GA getting left out, but there is no reason to have dominion items on a lane progression map.

2. Vision. We need more bushes and the possibility to place a ward for a hugely increased price.

3. Altars. They bring interesting mechanics to the game, but I wish they weren't the main focus of the game. I like that controlling both of them is rewarded with bonus damage, but I don't think it should give increased gold to have one.

4. Remove that health shrine in the middle. They just don't belong.

5. Reduce the wall sizes. I feel like there isn't a lot of space to walk because the walls are so huge. Reduce walls and add bushes.


What do you guys think? Please don't hate, only post your opinions.
1. There really isn't dom items like you say (Lightbringer/sweeper is for detection purposes, notice things like prospect blade and entropy are not in the shop). One of the problems with old TT was the itemization. Things that were made for 5s because of how long matches go in that mode, made for very abused, one-sided battles (Any ap with a cap or two would just flat out nuke anyone). Items like Thorn, GA, Warmog's are very broken in 3s settings. I don't see your point about making 5s items available, you didn't think about how easy that can cause unfairness.

2. One ward on a map this small could easily show 30-40% of the map. Doesn't make for a very fun experience if nobody ever engages. There's a thing called map awareness for a reason.

3. They are not a focal point at all, when the premise is still to get towers and destroy the nexus. The increased gold for one altar allows for faster gameplay. Again you need to think that this is a shorter team-based game instead of thinking this is 40-50 minute SR.

4. It's mainly for the junglers (to allow for faster clears and play). Doesn't really hurt the map at all, plus before it was a health pick-up, the middle part was a speed boost tunnel (Which was even more broken). The health gives off a sound when obtained so it's easy to tell if someone gets it, so plan accordingly.

5. Thin walls were one of the biggest errors on the old map. Made for hellish play with blink and gap closing champs. At the moment, only a few champs can clear most of the walls, which is a far cry from years ago. They had more bushes around the altars, but most of the areas were unused and didn't make much sense for cover. The placement now is in strategic spots that allow for ambushes or for safety. Adding more just clutters an already small map.


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

04-01-2014

The old map was ****..total cheese ****.

The new map is 5000% better for ease of play and design.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugalb98 View Post
1. There really isn't dom items like you say (Lightbringer/sweeper is for detection purposes, notice things like prospect blade and entropy are not in the shop). One of the problems with old TT was the itemization. Things that were made for 5s because of how long matches go in that mode, made for very abused, one-sided battles (Any ap with a cap or two would just flat out nuke anyone). Items like Thorn, GA, Warmog's are very broken in 3s settings. I don't see your point about making 5s items available, you didn't think about how easy that can cause unfairness.
Blackfire Torch, Dervish Blade, Lord Van Damm's Pillager, Sanguine Blade (also on ARAM), Wooglet's Witchcap?

To be fair it's because TT and Dominion have some similar balance woes and neither really lets you pick up big items like BF Sword or Needlessly Large Rod.

Quote:

2. One ward on a map this small could easily show 30-40% of the map. Doesn't make for a very fun experience if nobody ever engages. There's a thing called map awareness for a reason.
However, wards are familiar to most SR players. Removing them alienated some people.

I do think that TT needs better vision gameplay/vision itemization than the overnerfed Sweeper and Lightbringer. For TT I think weaker-than-SR vision Trinkets might be an interesting way to solve this.

Quote:
3. They are not a focal point at all, when the premise is still to get towers and destroy the nexus. The increased gold for one altar allows for faster gameplay. Again you need to think that this is a shorter team-based game instead of thinking this is 40-50 minute SR.
Then...why are they so big?

Why not just add the gold value directly to minions?

Quote:
4. It's mainly for the junglers (to allow for faster clears and play). Doesn't really hurt the map at all, plus before it was a health pick-up, the middle part was a speed boost tunnel (Which was even more broken). The health gives off a sound when obtained so it's easy to tell if someone gets it, so plan accordingly.


Quote:
5. Thin walls were one of the biggest errors on the old map. Made for hellish play with blink and gap closing champs. At the moment, only a few champs can clear most of the walls, which is a far cry from years ago. They had more bushes around the altars, but most of the areas were unused and didn't make much sense for cover. The placement now is in strategic spots that allow for ambushes or for safety. Adding more just clutters an already small map.
Claustrophobia OP. No other comments, not sure if expanding the map instead would be a good idea or just **** things up.


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Rugalb98

Senior Member

04-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortferngatr View Post
Blackfire Torch, Dervish Blade, Lord Van Damm's Pillager, Sanguine Blade (also on ARAM), Wooglet's Witchcap?

To be fair it's because TT and Dominion have some similar balance woes and neither really lets you pick up big items like BF Sword or Needlessly Large Rod.



However, wards are familiar to most SR players. Removing them alienated some people.

I do think that TT needs better vision gameplay/vision itemization than the overnerfed Sweeper and Lightbringer. For TT I think weaker-than-SR vision Trinkets might be an interesting way to solve this.



Then...why are they so big?

Why not just add the gold value directly to minions?







Claustrophobia OP. No other comments, not sure if expanding the map instead would be a good idea or just **** things up.
Regardless of the other items, Riot wanted the this mode to be fast-paced. I don't really get why people would ever be clamoring for 50-60 minute 3v3 matches (Hell Ranked 3s play is some of the fastest turn around action over waiting for all dem BIG PLAYS).

Other than the scrying orb being put in, I don't think vision is an issue. Unless you really think face checking bushes is the best tactic, there's always better strategies. Keeping track of what your opponents are doing 24/7 well never get objectives done on this map or win the game in a very timely fashion (Games should never be taken into the late game).

Does it matter that they're that big? The altars are a huge bullseye risk/reward objective. You either predict when you can take them, plan for a good ambush when the enemy attempts to cap, cap one after you pushed a lane or the enemy is at their base, or simply ignore them when it's not feasible to expend your resources to defend them. Adding extra gold to minions is a pretty powerful effect. It shouldn't just be handed on a silver platter at the start (Specially considering some champs that need tons of gold to snowball). So if you have to work to get an effect like that, I don't see why the altars are bad at all. In short, take em or leave em.

What more could they possibly add to justify increase map size? They're obviously not going to add blue or red camps, and there's already enough jungle on each side to farm off of. Just seems like it would slow the gameplay on TT down (which is the exact opposite of what Riot intended for the new map).


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Twetch

Junior Member

04-19-2014

The altars always make games so one sided


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GGray2000

Junior Member

04-22-2014

The altars are like dragons in SR. You could forget them but they make a big diffrence. There a reason to go into the jungle. They are really balanced.