MM and my thoughts on it after getting grouped with a 900+ win twitch.

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C9 HAl

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Senior Member

07-06-2010

1. He wanted mid, I told him no, so he sat there in my lane the whole laning phase.

2. He went for a malady first.

3. Decided it was cool to be Rambo, would not go into a fight unless there was one more person on the other team present in said fight than on our team.

4. If he did go into a fight, he would always make sure to die (disregarding the last team fight in the game).

5. He was present at all team fights however, much more than the average person MM throws my way.

All this, would be nice, but MM also gives me a 400+ win Card Master
-_-.

1. Again, rushed malady.

2. During laning phase, he popped in mid lane to try and kill a full hp Scion and Kennen. Common sense states he got a +1 to death at said point.

3. In team fights, he decided to backdoor the enemy turrets when our creeps were up on them. I saw him ult out once when a fight initiated only to see him 2 seconds later on top lane when the rest of the team was fighting at bot. At that point, 3 people in our team died, and TF did a whopping 10% dmg to their turret.

4. I have a grandmother in Ecuador, who speaks more English (and has never taken a class) than this guy.

5. I saw him blue card Scion when the brute decided to tower dive him.

Through all of this, the other team showed less brain power than mine.

So this is what I have trouble with, and why I have had trouble with this game for the past 2-3 weeks. I was in a clan prior to those 2-3 weeks, and pre-made was the only option. When we did pre-made, I was happy too loose. It meant I learned more, and as a team, we tweaked out our strategies even more. It got to the point where we would AoE comp or Heal comp our way to 7-10 win streaks (at 10 games, you're burned out).

So after doing that with them for about 2 weeks, I went back to solo que because my rl does not allow me to find groups anymore, not one I can dedicate myself too anyways. Yet as soon as I went back into que, expecting to be placed with groups that showed at least a tiny sign of intellect, I was thrown into groups even worse than the ones I see running around on my smurf. Is Elo working right?

I know I'm not the best player, but I know positioning just well, last hitting, the importance of grouping, the meta game, the counters to certain champions and try constantly to learn new champions (my latest one is Nidalee on my smurf, it feels like I'm playing Guitar Hero on expert with her after hitting 6). I know I'm well above average, and find it hard to believe that I'm still grouped with people that think the shiny ball hitting them from the opposite turret is healing them and not damaging them. Am I still on noobie island?

Why I ask this and whats the point that I'm getting at.

I have not learned anything new from my losses today, I have only learned to be more critical and wary of my teammates actions. Instead of smiling at the end of a game (after a loss) knowing that I have climbed the steps of the games difficulty a little higher, I have begun to frown feeling nothing but chains strapped to my waist as players way behind me on the stairs try to pull me down. I don't want to blame my losses on the players in my teams, or MM, but on myself. Something that I've only been able to do with maybe 1-2 games from my past few. The majority of the time a loss is produced because the opposite team groups up, when I request the same, I get nothing but discouragement. A lot of the time, my teams are scared to 5v5, and instead choose to try failing tactics (like the TF in my last game). The worst teams are ones that do group up, and instead of biting the bullet decide that running away after the fight is initiated(and not fight) is a much better tactic then running in and blowing your load (lol sexual reference).

The Summoners code

I can't say I have fully 100% have tried to follow it. But the times I try to be informative people take it as an insult. The times I request we accomplish something (set a goal) no one is happy with it. So I'll ask a question (What do you guys think we should do instead) and get either no response, or one I can not follow (see 4v5 while 1 pushes other lane). Its not that I don't think those strategies won't work either, they do against the right team. But when we have the advantage in teamfights as 5v5, would you rather ace their team and push 2 turrets? Or kill 2 of them, loose 4 of our guys, and get only 1 turret? In the right situation (a team of 4 players that knows that tower hugging is a viable strategy, instead of running away from our turrets against 5 players) I would love to pull of a move like that. But you're not going to do that in a PuG, you might 1 out of 10 games, but its not helping your team (4 other people) during the other 9 games when you consider yourself Jesus and run up too turrets trying to prayer them to death. I can contribute, if the people in my teams are willing to do it as well, otherwise its wasted breath.

Even High Elo players (From the games that I have observed, HotshotGG only plays as a team player when its convenient to the team, if someone says to do something that he considers a bad move, he wont follow through) grow a certain attitude towards pugs.

My thoughts on the entirety of the post

This can't be fixed through matchmaking, this is the community that is responsible for this (why I understand the summoner's code is in place, and to be honest, I made this revelation right now). I also understand that even if you are placed in High Elo, you are not immune to the mistakes of players. While I can say that 90% of my games do have players that do mistakes due to lack of experience (same ones I did when I started), the other 10% are hated even more (the ones that do legitimate mistakes) because of the rest of the player base. There are times where I have messed up a flash through a wall, or tower dived to deep (lol more ***), point is I've done those same mistakes. But I stop after noticing it, and continue pushing forward.

My request to the community when it comes to pugs

1. Calm down.

2. Be a teammate (your pride makes you think you're Rambo, but the reality is you can not carry every team, you have more chances of winning if you try to work with the people you play with, even the mentally-handicapped).

3. If you're trying out a new character, state it.

4. Call out lanes, if you wish to take someone's lane, discuss why (you have 1 minute 30 seconds pre-game, and 1 minute 30 seconds to plan out things, use this time to familiarize yourself with your teammates, stop being silent).

5. In-game, be informative and attentive, it's 5v5, don't treat it as 1v5, it's a team game and trust is an issue, if you have trust issues, deal with it. You don't like 4 other people ruining your game, why would you do the same to them?

6. Any other suggestions can go here, or other threads that do this list 10 times better than I have (I don't know them, if anyone can please post them I'd appreciate it).

I hope you read this all

I started this as a whining thread, I wanted to QQ for winning a stupid game. But I calmed down after my initial list. So instead I went back and re-thought everything through, why it happens and what can be done to fix it. The reality is that the community as a whole is still fairly new at this game, 9 times out of 10 you will have at least one other person the team that got carried 75% of his games in a pre-made or did nothing but que dodge until he got a perfect comp.

Hopefully down the road, I'd say maybe after Season 2, this stops in the average Elo ranks (by then the brackets should have enough veterans). But for now, stupid players will have to go through the same hard time learning the 50+ champions in the game as those who consider themselves elite. As well as learning the basics (last hitting, bushes, map awareness) through experience.

My final words, no seriously

Thank you all, hope this thread is read and taken into consideration the next time you pugged with someone imitating ******s all too well.



TLDR: I'm not going to truncate this into 2 words, it's just too much information.


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Razerwind

Senior Member

07-06-2010

The biggest fault of LoL is that it's very, very random who will win. There's 54 or 55 different champions, all who are rock paper scissors to another champ, there's many different summoner spells, some of which are great in laning phase and others which aren't, then there's 3 different mastery trees that can provide pretty hefty bonuses on some champs, and on top of all of this there are runes which those with the perfect set up will have a gigantic advantage over those who have a hodge podge page. Combine all of this with the fact that a huge majority of LoL games are played with 10 complete strangers who are playing who they want to play, and you get a ****ing **** shoot on who will win. Laning against certain champs as certain champs will almost guarantee a FB. Send the wrong person mid and they will lose their turret.

My Tryndamere has 830 health at level 1 with Dorans. 45 armor, 50 magic resist, 24 armor pen, etc. Other Tryndameres show up to lane with 500 health and 18 armor and no armor penetration. Now what if I take exhaust and ignite while they take ghost and teleport?

This is enough of a difference that the laning phase is completely lopsided and unbalanced and these type scenarios are what causes games to go badly from the start. This is just an example but these kinds of random situations are what decide games.

Top it off with a match making system that can't possibly be accurate unless you premake with the same team every single time and you get such a random chance of winning that it gets frustrating real fast. The Elo system is designed to give you a rating based on who you win against and who you lose against, but since your loss and your win is not typically decided by YOU, then your rating goes down or up based on extraneous factors and it becomes a weird rating based on luck rather than your skill. The super high Elo people all play in premades together and get to the top using the same teams and same team comps. The system isn't smart enough to gauge individual skill and that is a huge downside of this game.


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ODonnell

Senior Member

07-06-2010

^ i hate runes and masteries


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MVD1001

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Playing lots != good player


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Twigg

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODonnell View Post
^ i hate runes and masteries
I don't believe i'm saying this, but I agree.


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Collect3825

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODonnell View Post
^ i hate runes and masteries
It would be nice to have a page full of all the best runes though =p


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Galefire

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Senior Member

07-06-2010

All too true and well thought out, Aki


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Razerwind

Senior Member

07-06-2010

I've been campaigning for a no runes/masteries/summoner spells mode since launch.

And to the OP: this happens to me all the time as well. I buy wards. I put them in key locations. I last hit in the laning phase. I understand the importance of neutrals, particularly dragon. I push towers when given the opportunity with the use of wards.

Yet......I am continually paired with people who never buy wards (seriously, 1 teammate putting down 1 ward in a match is rare), buy Berserker's Greaves on any non-mage, Malady left and right, etc. The worst of the worst is people showing up to the lane and beginning AutoAttackMode. They just blindly auto attack minions constantly. If you last hit, great, an added bonus! But their primary concern is just auto attacking minions for the hell of it. Once out of 20 games I'll find a laning partner who just last hits like me. How am I supposed to go up in Elo with people like this?


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Haelstrom

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Senior Member

07-06-2010

I'll get frustrated when I play with team-mates who are obnoxious sons'o'Cho'Gath and don't know how to play their characters properly. I'll get frustrated when they have the nerve to blame me for their short-comings when I try and offer advice. But, once you're in a match, there's no changing your team; your team is the team you got, for better or worse.

So some items I'd hint at:

1. You need to adjust your play-style to your team to maximize effectiveness. Alright, the Twisted Fate has a Malady and is using Blue Card on Sion. He's a bad Twisted Fate. He believes he can do things a fed TF can do, not much you can do here except use him as a distraction because with his poor communication skills, you won't be able to roam with him since he'll ultimate away. The Twitch loves to initiate team-fights badly, you need to hug his balls so that when he does that, he isn't instantly gibbed to hell, because the TF is already going to feed out of your control.

2. Advice. Never type out advice -while playing-. I'm a pretty **** fast typist at 128 WPM, I could get away with it if I really wanted to - but every second wasted just standing there typing is seconds that could be spent farming, ganking, etc. Better to use strategic pings. And for the slow typist, this is really torture, since they can waste 20 or 30 seconds typing one thing. Remember, advice -during death.- Also, play it by ear. Some players are open to advice. But many are not, and take it as a personal attack and get very offended by it to an irrational degree. When the second happens, repeating what you've already said in grumpy text voice won't change it, and neither will wording it differently. You may as well adjust around their fail approach, as difficult as that may be to accept.

Remember: when someone takes offense to advice, and you waste time typing to them, they then waste time replying and so on. I'm guilty of this, I've had an Ashe spam chat with insults at me after I gave her advice how to aim her ultimate for half a game. I'm disturbed we won because she was motionless in middle lane for god knows how long.

3. Sometimes, we may be better players than it seems, but we have a bad day. Or we're not used to (x) champion, or we're used to pre-mades that capitalize on our approach and we're with different people that aren't. "High Elo players" that let PUGs go to their deaths are as bad as feeders, don't be that guy unless it seems 100% illogical. I can't tell you how many times I've turret dived as Singed with my ult up laning phase, easily able to destroy a turret close to destruction, expecting my team-mate to stun the one defender so I got the assured destroy-

Instead, they run away, I get CC'd and end up having to narrowly ditch or die, and their response is "that was suicidal ur bad." I've had games where I had -terrible- beggings (see: 0 kills, 0 assists, 8 deaths), and I ended up being the late game turn-around king with a 3:1 KDR and four turrets destroyed. But wanna know what I was met with along the way? "OMFG STOP FEEDING" "stop dying" And other fun tidbits from a bad Annie and a Warwick that had caster gear for some reason.

If you don't help your team, regardless of how bad or good they are, you either will or should lose. Period.

It's not fun. I hate solo queuing. The random nub last-hitting champs and not contributing to team fights will call himself "MVP" 29x and talk **** about you carrying the team. But, I didn't let that terrible Ryze go off to his death despite his bad attitude and play-style. Know why? A fed Ryze is a fun Ryze, and I made sure he was fed. If I just let him get ganked because I'm "good" and his approaches were "bad," he'd been dead so many **** times, his strategic worth would've rotted through the floor. Instead, I got him to the face melting stage where new players would cry "OP RYZE."

============================================

Your thread is quite informative, regardless.


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Slayticus

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODonnell View Post
^ i hate runes and masteries

It's just another level of the metagame, less than team comp most likely but still an integral part. I'm not sure that it's something to hate, just something that differentiates good and bad players. Of which I am bad.


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