Katarina, Garen versus Poppy, Pantheon (and some more)

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ColeWinters

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Senior Member

07-06-2010

I've always been an advocate for Kat and Garen having a "Resource" to manage. Unlimited ability spam is easymode and needs to be looked at. Especially Kat, whose passive lowers cooldowns.


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Fennec

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07-06-2010

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Originally Posted by Mr Scorpio View Post
You don't even what, you r-tard.


If you have a desire to play Poppy aggressively in the lane phase, you have to spend ridiculous amounts of mana to get any results. W -> E -> Q with each opportunity. Poppy's passive allows for a good sidelane harassment game with a partner who can take advantage of your charges, so it's only natural to be active on Poppy, which means spending mana. Of course, unless you are a pansy.
So... if you have no mana now you can always be Stupidly Aggressive! thats 100% what poppy needs...


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Fennec

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07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeWinters View Post
I've always been an advocate for Kat and Garen having a "Resource" to manage. Unlimited ability spam is easymode and needs to be looked at. Especially Kat, whose passive lowers cooldowns.
Why can't cooldowns be resources?


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QuentinWarden

Senior Member

07-06-2010

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Originally Posted by FennecFoxx View Post
Why can't cooldowns be resources?
Because everyone has them and only two characters have them without any other cost

I don't think garren/kat are that op (but i never mid so the jury's still out on kat) but while saying no cost is 'unique' i'd like to propose another brand of classification: 'boring as all hell.'

This is an rts, the balance between ability and resource is essential for the enjoyment of the game, introducing a risk/reward factor in that ability spam will deal great damage but leave the character vulnerable as a result (works with mana depletion, energy requiring recharging, and health being sapped), adding to the tension of many scenarios and making victory all the sweeter.

No resource chars are beyond boring because they do not have to consider the risks, simply spam to their hearts' content because their resources are inherently infinite, detracting from the strategy and skill required to properly enjoy this game.

Garren and Kat are boring, give them resources, buff poor Garren as a result, profit from two now interesting champs.


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DamnPandaHands

Senior Member

07-06-2010

manaless champions have much less customization options to be as effective. As a whole, don't mind either way.


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Fennec

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07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuentinWarden View Post
Because everyone has them and only two characters have them without any other cost

I don't think garren/kat are that op (but i never mid so the jury's still out on kat) but while saying no cost is 'unique' i'd like to propose another brand of classification: 'boring as all hell.'

This is an rts, the balance between ability and resource is essential for the enjoyment of the game, introducing a risk/reward factor in that ability spam will deal great damage but leave the character vulnerable as a result (works with mana depletion, energy requiring recharging, and health being sapped), adding to the tension of many scenarios and making victory all the sweeter.

No resource chars are beyond boring because they do not have to consider the risks, simply spam to their hearts' content because their resources are inherently infinite, detracting from the strategy and skill required to properly enjoy this game.

Garren and Kat are boring, give them resources, buff poor Garren as a result, profit from two now interesting champs.
Do you play kat or Garen? they both have trade offs in their skillsets. While they aren't the best and i think they could be better they both have trade offs in their skills. Kat has to pick how to use KI while garen can't AoE and Silence at the same time. This opens up alot of things that most casters only worry about at low levels and becomes a non-issue unless stuck in battle for a long time.

As for being boring i think both kat and garen would be very meeeh if they couldn't ult when they needed too. If you find the spamable skills to be boring i don't think they are the heroes for you.


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dungheap

Junior Member

07-06-2010

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Originally Posted by FennecFoxx View Post
As for being boring i think both kat and garen would be very meeeh if they couldn't ult when they needed too. If you find the spamable skills to be boring i don't think they are the heroes for you.
Exactly. If you ever played Olaf, Panth or Poppy, you could see how hindering it is, when you get low on mana and your team needs you NOW, not after you pill, not after you regen, not after you get golem, but NOW. And you can't use any ability, or can use one and just autoswing.
While of course you could have managed your mana better, there are moments where the fight is very intense in your lane, and then switches to other lane or jungle or whatever.
You are useless because your FULL MELEE champion ran out of mana. That's rather dumb, isn't it.


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Azghyn Nite

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07-06-2010

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678 View Post
Try constant harassment of Charge and Devestating Blow, using her W on occasion to even get into position, or range before the target changes to location of the charge.
Charges like that in a 2 man lane(supposing that 2 are there) is practically suicide. Your doing it wrong.


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Fennec

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07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by dungheap View Post
Exactly. If you ever played Olaf, Panth or Poppy, you could see how hindering it is, when you get low on mana and your team needs you NOW, not after you pill, not after you regen, not after you get golem, but NOW. And you can't use any ability, or can use one and just autoswing.
While of course you could have managed your mana better, there are moments where the fight is very intense in your lane, and then switches to other lane or jungle or whatever.
You are useless because your FULL MELEE champion ran out of mana. That's rather dumb, isn't it.
... Removing mana from any of thos heroes would mean nerfing the hell out of them. Mana lets them be so strong they are balanced around the fact that you can't spam their skills. It also make stats like mana regen so key for these heroes so Damage stats can scale much better.
Oh and its not like they are bad at auto attacking at ALL.


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alsowikk

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Olaf has more mana regen than most casters...it's insane! Something like 56 mana per five. Anivia has a base of something around 23 regen per five. Somehow I see Olaf's big regen more of a problem then the costless characters since they are made to have drawbacks in other areas to make up for this. Olaf however has been deseigned with mana and lacks any of those drawbacks