The only way to truly balance shaco is to make his clone only for confusion...

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Eyes0fThousand

Senior Member

07-02-2010

Now, hear me out. I've played against some stellar shacos, and some feeder shacos, the character itself is not "broken", but his clone is. To have literally, a second shaco, who at level 16 gets almost the exact same health, damage, and item bonuses, on demand, on a VERY short cooldown is just crazy. Imagine of mordekaiser could spawn a pet ghost whenever he wanted, ludicrous right? But his ghosts arent even half as powerful as shacos clones.

I miss the old days where shaco's clone was there for confusion, or a way to get away from a fight, not to literally double his damage output. And when stacking sunfires, the clone gets tankier then most tanks. Getting tower dived by a clone, which doesnt die, and when it does die, it does crazy AoE damage, is not fun at all.

The ONLY way to balance shaco would be to take away the "unique" passives from items, no more GA, no more bloodrazer wtfpwnage, and no more sunfire double stacking. But to balance the obvious "hit the shaco without the sunfire fire!", make it so the visual effects are still there, just no damage is done, or GA doesnt proc. Riot took a step in the right direction with the aura stacking removal, but shaco is still a problem.

Or, if that's not good enough, make the clone go on cooldown once the clone dies, not directly after you use it, that way its not up every 30 god**** seconds.

On a side note, the .5 seconds of complete invulnerability that hallucinate gives shaco is just stupid. A buddy of mine plays karthus, and we can't count how many times shaco and maybe 100 HP has dodged karthus's ult. I know it's hard to time, but its still stupid.

Tl;DR: Shaco's clone shouldnt get unique item bonuses, also cooldown should start when the clone dies, not when you use the spell.

But i know riot won't do this, shaco is one of their favourite characters. It was like pulling teeth getting them to even change Cardmaster.


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Crimson Rose

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Senior Member

07-02-2010

i believe the damage of his clone should get reduced.

in DotA, most illusions used to do 40% damage max if im not mistaken (chaos knight, mercurial).


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VMan7

Member

07-02-2010

Shaco is fine. 150/400g is too much for you to invest :/


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The Bad Lamb

Senior Member

07-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Rose View Post
i believe the damage of his clone should get reduced.

in DotA, most illusions used to do 40% damage max if im not mistaken (chaos knight, mercurial).
Lol. Chaos Knight Gets 4 illusions that do 100% damage and take double damage.


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VMan7

Member

07-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Rose View Post
i believe the damage of his clone should get reduced.

in DotA, most illusions used to do 40% damage max if im not mistaken (chaos knight, mercurial).
Chaos Knight's clones do 100%

Mercurial's do 50%

Manta Style is 33%

Terrorblade's do 65%

Forgot Naga Siren's... I think that's 40%.


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Ferisar

Senior Member

07-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Rose View Post
i believe the damage of his clone should get reduced.

in DotA, most illusions used to do 40% damage max if im not mistaken (chaos knight, mercurial).
Chaos Knight = Ultimate. Focused on summoning multiple clones for overpowering purposes.
Mercurial = Ult. Purpose primarily within the teleportation mechanic, not clone DPS.
Terrorblade = Not an ultimate, does decent damage.

None of them were intended to be purely "One clone ult" abilities. Shaco's ult is just that, and once the clone is dead or has disappeared, he's back to relying on boxes/deceive/shiv. If they were to nerf something from it, it may as well be bumped down to not being an ultimate.

On that note, please don't make balance comparisons with DotA. It's not the same game.


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makkii

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Senior Member

07-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by StatuatoryApe View Post
Now, hear me out. I've played against some stellar shacos, and some feeder shacos, the character itself is not "broken", but his clone is. To have literally, a second shaco, who at level 16 gets almost the exact same health, damage, and item bonuses, on demand, on a VERY short cooldown is just crazy. Imagine of mordekaiser could spawn a pet ghost whenever he wanted, ludicrous right? But his ghosts arent even half as powerful as shacos clones.

I miss the old days where shaco's clone was there for confusion, or a way to get away from a fight, not to literally double his damage output. And when stacking sunfires, the clone gets tankier then most tanks. Getting tower dived by a clone, which doesnt die, and when it does die, it does crazy AoE damage, is not fun at all.

The ONLY way to balance shaco would be to take away the "unique" passives from items, no more GA, no more bloodrazer wtfpwnage, and no more sunfire double stacking. But to balance the obvious "hit the shaco without the sunfire fire!", make it so the visual effects are still there, just no damage is done, or GA doesnt proc. Riot took a step in the right direction with the aura stacking removal, but shaco is still a problem.

Or, if that's not good enough, make the clone go on cooldown once the clone dies, not directly after you use it, that way its not up every 30 god**** seconds.

On a side note, the .5 seconds of complete invulnerability that hallucinate gives shaco is just stupid. A buddy of mine plays karthus, and we can't count how many times shaco and maybe 100 HP has dodged karthus's ult. I know it's hard to time, but its still stupid.

Tl;DR: Shaco's clone shouldnt get unique item bonuses, also cooldown should start when the clone dies, not when you use the spell.

But i know riot won't do this, shaco is one of their favourite characters. It was like pulling teeth getting them to even change Cardmaster.
shaco and his clones health are the same, howver, the effective health difference is HUGE.

also if i recall correctly mords ult has not only a dot but when he gets a player as a pet not only does that thing retain the players stats but mordekaiser also gets a percentage of that added to him, that in itself makes it on par with shacos ult in its own way, many carry ults can be considered as good because the damage is not carried through sustained damage of a seperate easy to kill entity.

on a side note, shacos backdooring capability got a substantial nerf, whereas other characters who are easily as capable are left untouched.


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Danulas

Senior Member

07-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMan7 View Post
Shaco is fine. 150/400g is too much for you to invest :/
I don't recall the OP mentioning Deceive ONCE during his entire post.

Think twice before you post. It only takes a few extra seconds to not sound like a moron.


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hsof777

Senior Member

07-02-2010

dude its fine just look for the shaco doing the spells or the one with the buff and kill that one


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Crimson Rose

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Senior Member

07-02-2010

well still none of those numbers are even close to 70%

except chaos knight... but well, he couldnt go invisible.


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