Renekton - Croc is asking to be heard Riot!

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00Rathiel00

Senior Member

05-21-2012

You have my positive vote and my support. Renekton needs some love.


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00Rathiel00

Senior Member

05-21-2012

So i read the thread a little here and there and i think Riot team is fooling around. They don't seem to have any real interest in fixing/reworking Renekton or, at least, they don't have the time to do such a thing.
It's the only logic explanation... i mean, Rene seems to have a lot of "fans" that wanted to see some work on him since 2011 and nothing came out so far, just Runewars skin... which is appreaciated but is not our main concern.


So, now what? We just sit here waiting for the miracle? It didn't work so far...


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Swordwraith

Senior Member

05-21-2012

How could you possibly buff Renekton? He's already monstrous.

Also, people who think his late game 'falls off' don't understand his role lategame. He has a dash, a stun, persistent AoE damage, and tankiness. Figure out what you're supposed to do in a teamfight.

He sees significant high level and competitive play.


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00Rathiel00

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordwraith View Post
How could you possibly buff Renekton? He's already monstrous.

Also, people who think his late game 'falls off' don't understand his role lategame. He has a dash, a stun, persistent AoE damage, and tankiness. Figure out what you're supposed to do in a teamfight.

He sees significant high level and competitive play.
Monstrous? I think you are going a little too far. Renekton just has a good early game and if you can't get fed during that time the championg will be pretty useless late game.


lategame his role is to just be there and be a bit annoying if he's not fed. Since he doesn't have enough damage or tanky capacity he ends up beign almost a support, with is pretty silly.


Also this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furi0usJ View Post
My main problem is that when I look at Renekton I see a giant, bloodthirsty, killer crocodile with a giant bladed weapon.

I then think "Oh yah, this guy is gonna be awesome and his play will feel EPIC"

Then, I play him. And it's not that he's terrible. Not that he's unplayable. He can lane top and do 'okay' - i.e. he stays alive until 6 vs most tops so that he can have a little fun, then falls off dramatically mid-late game.

But...he doesn't feel particularly good at anything, or particularly fun.

His play often feels flat, and unrewarding. You take risks, you dive through enemies and minions, and feel like you should be doing some serious damage by taking that risk. But, you don't - not really.

Honestly, I don't know what he needs, but I know what I want: When I play Renekton I want it to FEEL like I'm playing the character that I'm seeing. Fun. Aggressive. Dangerous. Risky.

And...it just ends up feeling kind of boring and uninspiring.


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solidfake

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Rathiel00 View Post
So i read the thread a little here and there and i think Riot team is fooling around. They don't seem to have any real interest in fixing/reworking Renekton or, at least, they don't have the time to do such a thing.
It's the only logic explanation... i mean, Rene seems to have a lot of "fans" that wanted to see some work on him since 2011 and nothing came out so far, just Runewars skin... which is appreaciated but is not our main concern.


So, now what? We just sit here waiting for the miracle? It didn't work so far...
I know how you feel, and I know that Riot has dissapointed us in the past..more than once.
But throwing all down the dripper is not the right way. I also feared that Renekton will stay in his state, and that Riot would never take a look on him simply because they fear his snowball-character, like they do with Xin-Zhao.

But instead of putting Renekton away from my list of favourite champions, I thought I need todo something. That's why I created that thread. And from now looking at it, I can see that I reached something with it, it might be small or even insignificant, but I reached something which was better than not acting and hoping for some miracle to happen.

There are no miracles in the world, either you act, or you wait for others to act, the choice is solely yours.


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Sachel Page

Senior Member

05-22-2012

I hate to say this but I personally believe Morello has chosen a side in this debate already. I say that based on results and statements that have been made by Morello. Morello clearly changed his tune from before. Now just because a champ is picked does not mean there Ok. A lot of champs are picked in tourney and higher elo play but the key word for many as well is effectiveness. Renekton has not carried tourneys like other solo tops or been as effective as various solo top champs over the course of time. Irelia and riven have carried many more tourneys from that position.


I use those two examples because they have been longstanding in that they have proven there effectiveness over time. Renekton has not. Morello I say to you that I have a feeling that you have already come to a conclusion about Renekton and all of this debate has been more counter productive than productive. If that be the case that is fine but please allow us at least to hear from you why you have the opinion you have on Renekton and also why he would not be a candidate for Riot to work on him as you have many champs since renekton release last year past. He came out in Jan 2011.


Since then as I look through the Riot timeline I see you have worked on some champs more than once. I also give you a lot of credit how you went about reworking Jax once the dodge mechanic was taken away. Now if Jax can be redone possibly still one of the most feared champs period.


Then I ask you again Morello what is it about Renekton that you guys are so scared of. It has to be something because you guys have avoided renekton to the point that is just does not make sense. I can honestly say I have been very suprised with the response regarding renekton. I see so many post replied to about other champs and it just seems weird that this guy brings about some internal ruckus if you will. So I say to all renekton players the good fight will continue question I have now have is has Morello already ended the debate before it even started.


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solidfake

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sachel Page View Post
I hate to say this but I personally believe Morello has chosen a side in this debate already. I say that based on results and statements that have been made by Morello. Morello clearly changed his tune from before. Now just because a champ is picked does not mean there Ok.


I use those two examples because they have been longstanding in that they have proven there effectiveness over time. Renekton has not. Morello I say to you that I have a feeling that you have already come to a conclusion about Renekton and all of this debate has been more counter productive than productive. If that be the case that is fine but please allow us at least to hear from you why you have the opinion you have on Renekton and also why he would not be a candidate for Riot to work on him as you have many champs since renekton release last year past. He came out in Jan 2011.


Since then as I look through the Riot timeline I see you have worked on some champs more than once. I also give you a lot of credit how you went about reworking Jax once the dodge mechanic was taken away. Now if Jax can be redone possibly still one of the most feared champs period.


Then I ask you again Morello what is it about Renekton that you guys are so scared of. It has to be something because you guys have avoided renekton to the point that is just does not make sense. I can honestly say I have been very suprised with the response regarding renekton. I see so many post replied to about other champs and it just seems weird that this guy brings about some internal ruckus if you will. So I say to all renekton players the good fight will continue question I have now have is has Morello already ended the debate before it even started.
I agree, it seems that he is listening now to the people. His first response in this thread was basically "eh, what you even want?" while his second was more like "well, seems like there are some issues we could erase, we'll look into them...".
But it also shows that Riot basically cared nothing about Renekton so far.

Riot cares in two cases for a Champion, either he has to be fotm; which was except after his release and the buff never really never the case for Renekton; or he has to be so overpowered that he breaks competition.
Karma is the same as Renekton, she does have a fanbase, but a rather small one compared to e.g. Gangplank or Irelia. Since compared noone cares for her and she never really was fotm, or overpowered, her problems and issues were ignored by Riot and they put their attention to 'more popular' and 'more troublesome' champions.
Same with Xin Zhao.
Same with Katarina.
Same with Ashes laningphase.
Same with Fiddles jungle.
Same with an additional ad-caster item.
Same with.....you know the rest.
If something isn't frequently used, extremely overpowered or simply fotm, it gets simply ignored by Riot until a trusty fanbase clamps together and cries like little children until Riot finally listens.
It is sad, but sadly it only works this way for us players of underplayed champions.

tl;dr: For Riot: Troublemakers come before lone wolves


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Tehadam

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Renekton can be good for teams, however he requires damage items in order to do so as well as a team that allows him to be unleashed(AKA, He needs a tanky Support bot or a Tank Jungle both with lots of CC) However Renekton himself does have a few problems outside this:

1. His long Cooldowns; without CDR Renekton come teamfights will just E into the enemy team, stun the carry with W, Q everything with his R up.. and that's it, he is a burst AD caster with long CDs that prevent him from dealing sustained damage, whereas other AD casters have shorter Cooldowns that allow them to use their abilities significantly more during laning and teamfights. This also limits his build options heavily, as he needs to build CDR to remain effective.
Suggestion: Give Renekton's ultimate passive CDR, scaling 5/10/15% at their respective ranks.

This will allow Renekton significantly more build options, as well as increase his sustained damage.

2. Lack of Passive; Renekton does have a "passive" however it is weak in terms other passive. Since it is 50% more fury below 50% HP, you need to be near death in order to utilize it. This is poor design as it basically gives the enemy team the signal to burst you once you hit 50% life, making your passive absolutely worthless.
Suggestion: Give him a passive that gives him 1 AD per 1% HP missing , up to a cap of 15/20/25/30/35/40/45/50(this will help it from spiraling out of control early) This will also help him from falling off by midgame, as Renekton will have damage items by this time making him very dangerous if he's decently farmed.

3. Renekton's Q and E is a little unrewarding; this ability actually provides more damage than his Q when charged with fury:
Q: 275 Base(1.2 AD ratio)
E: 375 Base(2.25 AD ratio)

Renekton's Q is his bread and butter spell, it provides him sustain and damage on a low cooldown(when comparing it to his other spells), however the sustain it provides is mediocre and the cooldown is 8 seconds, as a core ability this should really be something he can spam frequently.

Renekton's E is his primary utility spell, it gives armor shred and is an effective gap closer, it allows him to sweep through waves of minions with ease. The issue with it is that choosing the armor shred can be unrewarding if you fail to land your first E.

Suggestion A: Lower his Q's CD to 10/9/7/5/3 seconds and lower the base damage by a bit(keep the ratios the same), increase the healing to 40% as the ability will deal less damage, thus less sustain. The purpose of these changes is to make his Q the "I need health right NOW!" spell or the "I need to generate fury quickly" spells. Both of which will help fill his role of a caster more.

Suggestion B: Split his E's armor shred in half, give one half of it to his 1st portion, and the remainder for his second portion, make the charged E shred 25% more to make it more fulfilling, also increase the dash distance, allowing him to make the decision to escape from a sticky situation a lot easier.



4.
Using Renekton's W punishes him; currently Renekton's W locks him in place, often when facing champions who build Merc Threads Renekton's self stun will last longer than the stun Renekton places on them, this is a well known issue with an easy fix.
Suggestion: Speed up the animation or his W to be instant or just remove it altogether and make it a "heavy" auto attack.


NOTE: I'm not saying all these should be implemented together, my third suggestion coupled along with my first would make Renekton insanely OP, however my first, second, and fourth together would be fairly balanced and would make Renekton a great competitive pick.


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Sachel Page

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidfake View Post
I agree, it seems that he is listening now to the people. His first response in this thread was basically "eh, what you even want?" while his second was more like "well, seems like there are some issues we could erase, we'll look into them...".
But it also shows that Riot basically cared nothing about Renekton so far.

Riot cares in two cases for a Champion, either he has to be fotm; which was except after his release and the buff never really never the case for Renekton; or he has to be so overpowered that he breaks competition.
Karma is the same as Renekton, she does have a fanbase, but a rather small one compared to e.g. Gangplank or Irelia. Since compared noone cares for her and she never really was fotm, or overpowered, her problems and issues were ignored by Riot and they put their attention to 'more popular' and 'more troublesome' champions.
Same with Xin Zhao.
Same with Katarina.
Same with Ashes laningphase.
Same with Fiddles jungle.
Same with an additional ad-caster item.
Same with.....you know the rest.
If something isn't frequently used, extremely overpowered or simply fotm, it gets simply ignored by Riot until a trusty fanbase clamps together and cries like little children until Riot finally listens.
It is sad, but sadly it only works this way for us players of underplayed champions.

tl;dr: For Riot: Troublemakers come before lone wolves

My issue with Morello at this point is be straight forward with us. Just come out and say hey guys were not doing anything with renekton here is why so you may understand from our point of view about that.

This has clearly shown me what is the point of players calling out a champs issues only to be toyed with or just to many different statements and just to much messing around with players on a subject they are taking very seriously voicing opinions and taking a lot of criticism.

I don't get it and I think that it's something we as players are not meant to understand. So again I think it's safe to say the people that think renekton is fine have won at this point and I have no issue with that. But I just wish Morello would come out and express what his fears are about trenekton and why after over a year renekton has not gotten any attention at all. Such a great champ in Riot's dog house just sad so much potential if he would be looked at without a biased eye.


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00Rathiel00

Senior Member

05-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidfake View Post
I know how you feel, and I know that Riot has dissapointed us in the past..more than once.
But throwing all down the dripper is not the right way. I also feared that Renekton will stay in his state, and that Riot would never take a look on him simply because they fear his snowball-character, like they do with Xin-Zhao.

But instead of putting Renekton away from my list of favourite champions, I thought I need todo something. That's why I created that thread. And from now looking at it, I can see that I reached something with it, it might be small or even insignificant, but I reached something which was better than not acting and hoping for some miracle to happen.

There are no miracles in the world, either you act, or you wait for others to act, the choice is solely yours.
Well... i'm staying here trying to comment and bump as much as i can to bring some justice to our beloved croc.
I don't have a lot of faith on Riot team... but maybe, if we stick together, someday this thread will be big enough to get the proper attention from reds.

I'd just LOVE to see a company doing what their customers want for once.