Ryze, Seriously

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Nayuki

Senior Member

09-30-2009

I'd say there is a very significant drop off in players who use Ryze in pubs and who use them in higher tier games, yes - it's actually a pretty common sight. There are on the other hand characters like Ashe who have power in pug games and see a lot of competitive use as well - Ashe is an oddity since she is also very easy but maintains her power in higher level games and I don't know why really...Probably because she is just a huge ball of CC incarnate.

Ryze doesn't bring enough to the table - he has incredible burst damage, but that is all he has. You see a Ryze you can slap on a couple pieces of MR and he is effectively nothing in the fight since even his physical attacks can't do it as they are magical. This hurts other pure casters a lot to but they tend to have a lot more utility powers - shields, stuns, slows, heals, buffs, etc. Ryze does damage and only damage.

He dosn't have that extra sparkle that makes him handy in higher tier games like other heroes do - Ryze kind of lacks the ability to adapt to situations. Admittedly if you have to adapt you usually are already losing, but Ryze has to do one thing - nuke, he can't do anything else and just can be shut out from it so easily.

It would be kind of nice if he got a bit of utility love.


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Mysteryglow

Junior Member

10-01-2009

Ryze is an easy noob killer and early game champion killer. Sure, at level 6 ryze can walk over to my lane, prison then ulti and kill me, but every ryze i see played stacks ability power and more ability power to make his nukes stronger.

He leaves himself to vulnerable late game, and if your nukes mess up, IE someone blinks away, banshee's veil, got some magic resistance, or stuns you first, you are done. most Ryze's i see played rarely break 2200 hp and have little armor.

What happens is, you own at the start, and people get upset and either rage quit or surrender because they assume they are going to lose, but if they just wait and it comes to group fights and pushes late game, you really dont bring anything except maybe a quick root and a free kill.


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RamboBatman

Senior Member

10-01-2009

When I was new to the game yes, Ryze was one of my top problem characters. He would just show up, kill me in about 2 secs and I'd be left wondering how anyone could have avoided the same fate. Then I discovered how good MR was. Seriously, while there are plenty of characters that stack armor like crazy I don't see a lot of people buy MR items even against a team composed primarily of casters. MR really stops Ryze dead. I recently played a MR build Singe and laughed heartily as Ryze unloaded his full compliment of spells on me only to take about 1/3 of my HP. Then I threw him, then I punched him, then he was dead.


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Bregan

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Senior Member

10-01-2009

oh sure, go out of your way to put on some magic resistance, leave yourself open to anything physical, cripple your own damage output, thats a great way to counter somebody, that doesnt just help the rest of his team kill you or anything, or help them survive anything you through out.

benedict is right. anybody can use ryze well. he may not seem drastically better in the hands of a "pro" player, because he has a limit of options to work with. however, those options that he does have, he does obscenely well. if he cripples your early game good enough, people cant catch up to him. not only that, but his entire team excels and you cant catch them either.

summoner spells are not an acceptable excuse for "balance" due to their long cooldowns and stipulations of what is brought. summoner spells arent meant to make or break the entire balance of a game or single champion. if that is the case, then something must be done to either the champion or the spell. more than that, any summoner spell you bring, ryze can potentially bring as well.

nayuki: if morgana misses dark binding, she can only do a few things: drop tainted soil for a sparce amount of damage, turn on ultimate, put on black shield. any of which, she isnt going to stop a good ryze, especially if she goes "tanky beefy build". ryze's overload (if he's been playing right) should destroy black shield, opening her up for root and potential ulting. fiddle's silence is only 2 seconds (unless it bounces) which really means nothing.

over all, people keep saying he can only do one thing. DURRRRRRRRR so does annie, so does ashe, so does tristana, so does yi, etc. the thing is, they do them OBSCENELY WELL. in late game team fights, he doesnt NEED variety. in a team fight it comes down to who needs to die first; who poses the biggest threat. if you put ryze at the bottom because "he cant do much" then be prepared to die a lot. there are tons of times when teams get their priorities wrong because it's ryze that sets up the kill or does the majority of damage to someone. and when he isnt taken care of, he's doing it again and again and again. so lets say perhaps you do take out this "weak link" of the team first, if he has any battle sense he isnt getting into the center of **** and he's rooting people who get too close. on top of that, his team is capitalizing on all that he may be doing as well as protecting him.


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Bregan

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Senior Member

10-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboBatman View Post
When I was new to the game yes, Ryze was one of my top problem characters. He would just show up, kill me in about 2 secs and I'd be left wondering how anyone could have avoided the same fate. Then I discovered how good MR was. Seriously, while there are plenty of characters that stack armor like crazy I don't see a lot of people buy MR items even against a team composed primarily of casters. MR really stops Ryze dead. I recently played a MR build Singe and laughed heartily as Ryze unloaded his full compliment of spells on me only to take about 1/3 of my HP. Then I threw him, then I punched him, then he was dead.
that ryze wasnt very smart of he went toe to toe with you like that. any good player should be viewing the items of his targets. any good player should know that going against such items demands KITING instead of full output against full hp.


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Mysteryglow

Junior Member

10-01-2009

Im not saying go all out and weaken yourself or "cripple" yourself.

But if i just get a Banshee's, If ryze shows up and see's that i have it on, he cant cast prison first because i will just eat it and then move away so his ulti wont bounce. if he uses overload first then i now have time to throw something at him, or alert my teammates to come assist me.

You read to far into it assuming i meant stack nothing but magic resist items, but really, once you get some hp and a little bit of resistance, all that needs to be done is when ryze shows up, throw a stun/silence/snare at him and then he is an easy target.

Im sure you have owned some pub games as him, so have I, i went 30 - 3 one game but we still lost, because my team just stood behind me while the other team worked together. you can gank all you want but that doesnt win you the match, killint the other teams base does. but once you play against people who work together, who get some MR and who throw a stun at you, its done.

besides, ryze is no problem if you know how to harass early on, any game i play and i lane against a ryze, 1) i usually outlevel him by one to two levels and 2) if his prison/ulti doesnt finish you, he is done.


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FellowerOfOdin

Member

10-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawlerkats View Post
All I can say is when played by someone who knows what he's doing against someone who does not know what he's doing, Ryze friggen hurts. All the time.
Fixed it for you bro.


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Critical Error

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Senior Member

10-01-2009

Ryze is powerful, but, ever since I started playing beta, I have never considered him OP. Sure he pumps out a lot of damage, but MR is plentiful (especially, but not exclusively for tanks). Also, HP stacking is quite rampant.

Besides getting MR in a game with heroes like Ryze (where a caster is owning your team), you can consider just changing your strategy. Unless you specifically see Ryze on the map nowhere near you, dont cut across the field or go too far anywhere solo. Its as plain as that. Ryze is not a powerhouse when there are multiple heroes for his ult to target, so stay grouped up and stay close. If he catches you alone, you are dead--dont complain how powerful he is, or how cheap he is, he caught you 1v1, and he is totally, without a doubt, catered to 1v1.


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Evilpigeon

Adjudicator

10-01-2009

I rarely see Ryze dominate, he is quite easy to counter, bait even with flash. In the right situation, like most casters he can do stupid damage but if you're facing reasonably intelligent players, you dont' chase ryze into the woods unless you are certain you can kill fast despite rune prison, you don't attack him away from your creeps etc...

Also Fiddle miss a silence? It's not a skill shot ya know. Also a second player won't help much unless they ahve a stun. - sorry this bit is a reply to something on the bottom of the previous page, I'm too lazy to quote.


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RamboBatman

Senior Member

10-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregan View Post
oh sure, go out of your way to put on some magic resistance, leave yourself open to anything physical, cripple your own damage output, thats a great way to counter somebody, that doesnt just help the rest of his team kill you or anything, or help them survive anything you through out.
I didn't really go out of my way, I was playing a MR/AP build that I read about in the guides. I'm certainly not a great player but I do ok, and that game I went 12-2 (thanks to the guide writer). Anyway, Force of Nature comes with high MR and some hefty health regen so no, I didn't hurt my overall survivability. Abyssal Scepter also comes with some MR plus some AP, plus some MR reduction so no, I didn't cripple my damage output. I understand that MR certainly isn't the answer to every problem but its a damn good answer to Ryze and many others. Would I build that way against a team with a lot of physical DPS? No, that would be silly.