Fizz spell vamps only on his Q and ultimate

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Opreich

Senior Member

11-15-2011

His Q shouldn't even vamp considering it applies on hit effects ala Life steal.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

11-15-2011

Proc magic damage needs to benefit from Spellvamp, even if it's at some small amount. The idea of Fizz, Teemo, Kog'Maw, Twisted Fate etc. having some ethereal nonsensical damage type that can't be siphoned off of makes no sense from a thematic or design point.


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Werewolf Link

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Recruiter

11-15-2011

At the very least, the Active on Seastone Trident should proc Spell Vamp.

I also don't see why his Trollvault doesn't proc Spell Vamp when he lands. After all, he is targetable AFTER he lands, which is when the damage is dealt, not during the trollvaulting.


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AbsolutionJailor

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Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMannie View Post
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I'll bring it up and see how people feel about it. I'm curious though, if spell vamp worked on Fizz's 'W', would it actually change the way you itemize?
Hey there, I'd like to add just a bit to this.

Kassadin has an on-hit (with a cooldown to activate it, much like Fizz) that proc Rylai's and Spell Vamp on the active portion.

Kayle has an on-hit (with a cooldown to activate it, much like Fizz) that procs Rylai's and Spell Vamp on the active portion, in AoE.

I very much think that for activated magic damage on-hit that has a cooldown, Rylai's and Spell Vamp does affect itemization and synergy. As Kayle, when an ally brings Will of the Ancients, I appreciate the aura quite a bit.

Likewise, I think Rylai's and the new Spell Vamp masteries would provide quite a bit of needed synergy, because for now, W feels a little boring. It doesn't help sustain, and it doesn't benefit from the utility of other items.

Conversely, Rylai's feels bad on him right now, because Q is a gap closer and the duration of the slow is negligible considering the distance created, and E is AoE so it's only 15% (not to mention, letting E fall in place already slows), and on his ultimate, the slow falls off before the knockup/backs end.


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Dirty Foot

Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMannie View Post
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I'll bring it up and see how people feel about it. I'm curious though, if spell vamp worked on Fizz's 'W', would it actually change the way you itemize?
I've been working with some builds around spell vamp on many champs. I would immediately start building him hybrid with Lichbane and Hextech. I do admit it's a stretch, but I think it would open up his mid-late game.

If you changed this, you would HAVE to lower the percentage based damage on his W--that's just an absolute given. It would, however, enable people to have a decent AP jungler with mobility--although, I don't know if Riot would want that to happen. We just have a melee-AP champ with little mitigation and no sustain; he has a dodge skill, but it's on a pretty significant cooldown for what is expected of its short duration and range. It also costs a LOT of mana, which makes it excessively risky, especially early game. I can't think of another AP champ that gets in as close as Fizz does without having some sort of exit strategy or sustain to rely on.

For all I know, I could be the only person that feels this way though. I will be testing many more builds on him, but my initial feel is that he puts himself in a lot of danger for a champ that's supposed to be highly mobile.


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Dirty Foot

Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
Proc magic damage needs to benefit from Spellvamp, even if it's at some small amount. The idea of Fizz, Teemo, Kog'Maw, Twisted Fate etc. having some ethereal nonsensical damage type that can't be siphoned off of makes no sense from a thematic or design point.
/brofist

Always nice when you pop in.


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AbsolutionJailor

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Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Foot View Post
I've been working with some builds around spell vamp on many champs. I would immediately start building him hybrid with Lichbane and Hextech. I do admit it's a stretch

If you changed this, you would HAVE to lower the percentage based damage on his W--that's just an absolute given.
I disagree slightly. I don't think they should make the damage over time portion benefit from Rylai's or Spell Vamp. It's the active on-hit (which is limited by cooldown) that I think deserves synergy.

Kassadin, for example. His W adds magic damage to every attack, and works with Rylai's and Spell Vamp, allowing him to spend a bit of mana to regenerate health for attacking if you get Will/Revolver/Gunblade. It also gives him a bit more control and chase-ability if you choose to get Rylai's (against a very mobile enemy team, people underestimate how great Rylai's is on Q and W and R).

Also, Kayle can slow an entire area with her on-hit active cooldown if you invest in Rylai's, as well as gain health from Spell Vamp for every target hit (cut down 33% if you hit multiple targets, like all AoE).

Compare to Frozen Mallet, Rylai's is usually not as effective at staying in range unless it is paired with a very highly mobile, low-cooldown mage who doesn't focus on burst.

Fizz is a sustained damage assassin. I feel like allowing this synergy on the active portion of Seastone Trident would go very far in making him effective in this niche.


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exe3

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Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMannie View Post
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I'll bring it up and see how people feel about it. I'm curious though, if spell vamp worked on Fizz's 'W', would it actually change the way you itemize?
Don't forget others like MF's Impure shots!


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Dirty Foot

Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsolutionJailor View Post
I disagree slightly. I don't think they should make the damage over time portion benefit from Rylai's or Spell Vamp. It's the active on-hit (which is limited by cooldown) that I think deserves synergy.

Kassadin, for example. His W adds magic damage to every attack, and works with Rylai's and Spell Vamp, allowing him to spend a bit of mana to regenerate health for attacking if you get Will/Revolver/Gunblade. It also gives him a bit more control and chase-ability if you choose to get Rylai's (against a very mobile enemy team, people underestimate how great Rylai's is on Q and W and R).

Also, Kayle can slow an entire area with her on-hit active cooldown if you invest in Rylai's, as well as gain health from Spell Vamp for every target hit (cut down 33% if you hit multiple targets, like all AoE).

Compare to Frozen Mallet, Rylai's is usually not as effective at staying in range unless it is paired with a very highly mobile, low-cooldown mage who doesn't focus on burst.

Fizz is a sustained damage assassin. I feel like allowing this synergy on the active portion of Seastone Trident would go very far in making him effective in this niche.
I would settle for adding it only to the active portion, but would really prefer that it work consistently for passive and active (if just for ease of knowledge on those that don't play him). The reason I'd push for both is that while he is a sustain assassin, the damage is still split nearly down the middle of AA and skills, even if he goes for LichBane. He might be doing decent damage overall, but he'd still only be getting 15% spell vamp from half of it. I just feel like he's too in someone's face all the time to not be permitted to build spell vamp. A champ like Akali benefits exponentially from both life steal and spell vamp, yet still manages to remain relatively balanced.

That said, I feel as though we all may be overlooking the obvious, and that he really functions better as an AD carry with two closers--or a closer and an escape. I hope it doesn't work, because it'd be nice to finally have a champ that works with the current, intended, mechanics.


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MandyMemory

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Senior Member

11-15-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMannie View Post
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I'll bring it up and see how people feel about it. I'm curious though, if spell vamp worked on Fizz's 'W', would it actually change the way you itemize?
I'd build a will. I'd also love for his E to work with will.


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