Chogath is Top-Tier (Again): The Definitive Guide by 5HITCOMBO

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A Tryhardosaurus

Senior Member

07-09-2010

AP cho gath, 6 stack feast, godly.


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Shadowburn

Member

07-09-2010

Read condon's guide for the Cho'gath mentality and this guide for the more updated build and items. Gj 5hitcombo, this guide balances cho's survivibility and ap potential.

+1

On another note, you may want to think about working in a atmas impaler in your build. It increases surivibility while effectively doubling your auto-atk damage as you will be auto attacking quite a bit anyways.


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unentschieden

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Why would you? Yeah Atmas grants great damage on a HP mountain like Cho but AD is far less usefull on Cho compared to AP. In practive Cho doesnīt get to autoattack much since he is quite slow and Rupture isnīt completely reliable. You are better of optimising your nukepotentional rather than substained damage.


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5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by unentschieden View Post
Also something to consider is thinking about getting Zhonyas first if all you need is AP AND Zhonyas is the ONLY AP you get. Zhonyas on itīs own is ineffective, Gold/AP it starts being cost effective if you already have a different AP item. That said the reason to go Zhonyas first is to abuse the active yet Iīm unshure Cho can really do that, he has no Turrets like Heimer and his CDīs are too long to consider the time bought a advantage - unless you have reliable Teammates.
The 120 AP on it are from itīs components, you pay the reciepe price for the unique active and the passive. Again is the Active worth 1000Gold for Cho? The Passive definetly isnīt worth it if Zhonyas is the only AP you get.
If you want pure AP early on, why not just stack NLRs? Lucky picks are also extremely attractive very early AP items. Just try replacing Zhonyas with Deathfire grasp, itīs less AP but actually more singletarget nukerotation damage with the active.
Actually, Zhonya's gives you 150 AP, and two NLR would be 160, so I might actually try this out. Depending on what lane I'm in and how hard it is to get kills I sometimes open RoA and go Zhonya's next, which really boosts AP after you finish it. As long as the combo can hit most carries from 3/4 hp I'd like to start building tank from that point on, though, which is why I like NLR-> Zhonya's, because it's fast damage in one slot. Double NLR does sound good, though, and it's cheaper. I'll try it out and let you know, thanks for the input.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

07-10-2010

Thanks for a nice guide! I'm trying it right now with different item combinations. I am also very tempted to try the following:
- Warmogs
- Zhonya's
- Abyssal scepter
- Frozen heart
Seems to me like a nice combo of offencive/defencive items in a solid package. You get some decent EHP and HP/regen, as well as 237 AP, 20 MReduction aura and 25% CDR to crush them squishes. Sounds reasonable for 13.320 gold (excluding boots).

You could start building this by buying:
- Regrowth pendant
- NLR
- Giant's belt
- Chain vest
- Negatron cloak
These cost 4600 total (very cost effective IMO) and can be upgraded later as you see fit


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unentschieden

Senior Member

07-12-2010

Warmoggīs is bad. Itīs always bad but its especially bad on Cho since he already getīs the most natural HP out of any Champion if he manages 6 stacks. He is literally the LAST Champion that needs more HP.
Enemys that see Cho already plan for grabbing Bloodrazor and/or Deathfire, prioritizing HP for defense just makes that even more effective.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

07-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrtra Theory View Post
Just a note on this: Cho really doesn't have amazing base health. 470 + 80 per level, or 1910 at level 18. Even Master Yi beats that number. Of course, once he gets a full six stacks, he blows everyone else out of the water at 2810 (1910 + 150 * 6).
By the way my lategame Evelynn has 2400 HP with her items. To be an effective lategame offtank would require a bit more, I suppose.

So I wouldn't underrate an item giving me +50% EHP (when I am without feast stacks) and crazy HP regen (you will need HP regen during mid-game sieges, trust me).

And as for those Feast stacks: I'd rather consider them to be an expendable stuff. Sometimes it is your job as tank to stand ground and die for your team, and not run like a ***** having your precious stacks in mind. Sometimes you get ganked. Yes, having Feast stacks is nice, but I'd rather see them as luxury.

As for the Bloodrazors (and such): I have yet to see an opposing team having all 5 of them. Besides, Blodrazor effects can be somehow weakened by magic resist. Add Force of Nature on top of my items and have fun.

Of course if you don't like Warmog's THAT much - for God's sake don't build them. I will.


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unentschieden

Senior Member

07-12-2010

No matter what kind of Cho you play, if you canīt maintain your Feaststacks you need to adjust your playstyle. Feaststacks are NOT expendable, that is Choīs big weakness. Without them he is a supersquishy close range Champ and canīt do ANYTHING well, regardless of his role. It hurts his viability as Tank a lot and is one of the reasons I play him AP instead.

If you die you need to play defensivly until you regain your stacks. That is why you grab a Brilliance Elexier after dieing to speed up the refeast process. Feast deals 1000 True damage to nonchampions, itīs ideal for jungling.

Also, what gave you the idea that Bloodrazors are only a issue if EVERYONE gets them? Itīs enough if one of the enemy Team getīs the HP counter considering how strong the counter is. You donīt just throw in a luxury item like FoN like that to counter the counter to your lovely build. Donīt allow yourself to be countered like that in the first place.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

07-12-2010

Nice points.
By the way I don't like the idea to play defencively until I regain my stacks. I only die repeatedly in case our team is loosing the game overall. In that case I usually can't hide away and wait 3-6 minutes to regain those stacks, only to find the enemy already beating at our Nexus.

How do you counter Bloodrazors and such, honestly? It is not that having less HP lets you survive longer, or am I wrong? =)


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unentschieden

Senior Member

07-12-2010

That is the champions problem though. On the other hand with 6 stacks he has more survivability than his Damagepotentional would normally allow. A 6 stacl Cho is overpowered, a 0 stack Cho is underpowered. He needs appropiate defense to get into position, how much exactly is dependent on the individual game. Thing is you are more effective if you use the "free" HP for the required defense instead of costly items. Itīs a bit like getting Phage on Ashe.

Cho looses 3 stacks on death and should gain 1 stack every minute. Thus youīd end up without stacks constantly if you die every 3 minutes - thats no being behind, thatīs getting steamrolled. Even worse if the other Team can keep you out of your own jungle. At that point the advice really is "die less", especially if you are going Tank. Again, being a burden on the Team if dieing constantly is one of Choīs downsides.

You "counter" Bloodrazors by having a proper HP to Armor/MR ratio. Bloodrazors are not costeffective against nonHPstackers. The problem isnīt having too much HP but buying HP instead of Armor/MR. With a "normal" defensive setup you will take less damage from Bloodrazors than from another item of the same price.
But even IF youīd need more HP Warmoggs is a bad item, since even "full" it is Goldineffective and the HP-Regen is obsolete by the Time you can complete the Warmoggs.