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Don't you think thornmail punish AD carries too harsh?

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Tautochrone

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Rickert:
Life Steal is calculated AFTER damage reduction. It's ok if it is calculated before. Making Last Whisper/Black Cleaver mandatory is not fun in general.


Why?

Thornmail is mandatory for dealing with AD carries..


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Black Lyon

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Right now Thornmail is one of the few things keeping AD Carries in check. I shudder to think what would be become of Dominion, if in it's current state, you removed Thornmail.


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Elealar

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Black Lyon:
I shudder to think what would be become of Dominion, if in it's current state, you removed Thornmail.


More people would learn to build Ninja Tabi, Frozen Heart, Randuin's Omen, Atma's Impaler, Guardian Angel, Zhonya's Hourglass & Sunfire Cape as appropriate. Well, in an utopia anyways. In reality, people would probably flock to the forums to complain and Riot would see the light and "fix" ADs after which people would complain about APs and Riot would "fix" APs and we'd only be left with Tanky DPS ('cause they are inherently strong against Assassins) after which Riot would "fix" them too and the cycle would begin anew.

Thornmail is fine. A useful, but way overused item. There are cases when it's the right build but people think that's every time enemy team has strong ADs. Chances are people would win more if they used the other anti-AD items more as appropriate (especially Ninja Tabi; those are ridiculously cheap and efficient on non-Jax champions too).


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Talamare

Senior Member

11-13-2011

MR counters Thornmail reflect damage


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mufins

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Talamare:
MR counters Thornmail reflect damage


lol, get odyn's veil so you can throw the reflected damage back at them!

and then they get an odyn's veil and its like wtf bbq sauce...


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Talamare

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
mufins:
lol, get odyn's veil so you can throw the reflected damage back at them!

and then they get an odyn's veil and its like wtf bbq sauce...


Reflecting the Reflected damage?

Infinite Loop!


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Rickert

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
The Wrongsword:
Imagine? I played as Vayne 2 games ago, 4/5 of the enemy team had thornmails cause we were AD heavy. Teams were pretty evenly matched, I went 26/8/16 and we won after a really long game. Just cause they have thornmail doesnt mean all hope is lost for AD carries, its a strong counterpick but it doesnt define the game.

A lot of AD carries have ways around it, Vayne has her silver bolts, Kog'Maw / Twitch / Yi / Teemo / Kayle do a mix of physical and magic dmg, and jax and akali are heavily AP anyway. Tryn has his ult where he can kill without worrying about dying to thorn. There are ways around it.

On one hand it counters AD really hard for 2k gold, but if you have a decent team comp, its 2k wasted gold against AP casters and a 2k gold drop in dmg output so it has its downsides

It looks like you was fed enough to kill anyone and you are the primary damage dealer in your team. Replace your story with a Yi/Ashe/Tristina and we will see what happen. Vayne, Kogmaw are anti-tank/tanky dps. Kog deals primary magic damage, and Vayne got her imba skill of 8% health.

Yi deals magic damage? Either ap or ad he can only deal one type of damage (in either way, the damage from the other type of damage is minimal). Imo, damage dealer like Yi or GP should be able to kill target as fast as akali, even at early game, that's their job and they can only deal damage to single damage. It's rare to see "Oh god it's Yi" in Dominion, it's even rarer to see Yi can be a threat in here. Yi is just an example.

Most other armor items have no issue for AD, except for thornmail since it reflects back the damage, which is realy strong for both offense and defense.

However, I also join the metagame currently. I have more fun to build tanky with huge damage to be unkillable and while having ridiculous damage to kill squishies.


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jars

Senior Member

11-13-2011

thornmail isn't good.

thornmail
is
not
good

the only thing it offers is armor. the return damage is laughable. frozen heart, randuins, and zhonyas offer real damage mitigation that helps your entire team(well not the zhonyas but it's still excellent)


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Talamare

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
jars:
thornmail isn't good.

thornmail
is
not
good

the only thing it offers is armor. the return damage is laughable. frozen heart, randuins, and zhonyas offer real damage mitigation that helps your entire team(well not the zhonyas but it's still excellent)


Having the target kill himself reduces his damage output to zero

(unless hes Karth.... but then why the hell did you buy thornmail versus karth!)


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The Shank

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Stimuz:
If anything it punishes the underdog AD carries too much. It sure as hell doesn't punish sion/kog'maw/vayne/jax enough.


Which is why frozen heart exists.