Don't you think thornmail punish AD carries too harsh?

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HowlingKommando

Senior Member

11-13-2011

You can counter Thornmail's damage by having over 30% life steal. Lifesteal is also cheaper than buying Thornmail and can be overstacked. You can only have 1 Thornmail because it's a Unique passive.

Thornmail is still good obviously, but don't think that Yi is completely finished once you get it.


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Prometheius

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Tmail is only good IF the carry you fight doesn't:

1) Have Last Whisper/Black Cleaver (Mandatory item on all champs)
2) Life Steal of any kind
3) MRes of any kind

If they didn't have any of this, they would have died just as easily to any other type of champ.


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Yfrappefort

Senior Member

11-13-2011

It will only really punish team who don't think and pick 5 AD when you picked Rammus.


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Rickert

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Life Steal is calculated AFTER damage reduction. It's ok if it is calculated before. Making Last Whisper/Black Cleaver mandatory is not fun in general.


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MindlessLegend

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Thornmail does magic damage, so if you have 100MR, that means you will be receiving 15% magic damage instead of 30.
There are I think 3 or 4 AD MR items in the game.

So you do 1,000 damage to enemy they resist it 50% and receive 500 damage and you receive only 150 damage with 100MR. And if you add 12% life steal on top of that, Thornmail will only deal 100 Damage.


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Reikken

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Thornmail isn't a hard counter. Get some MR and life steal. Done. I've played AD against thornmail, and a wit's end and vamp scepter generally does the trick just fine. I'm not healing off my enemy, but I'm not taking damage either. Add a last whisper too if they're really stacking that armor. Plus, the more they spend on armor, the less they spend on MR and damage, so your AP will roll them.


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The Wrongsword

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickert View Post
Imagine 3 or even 5 of the opposing team get thornmails. Suddenly 3 ad carries on your team deals negligible damage and become liability on your team. You won't have enough time to get enough lifesteal and Last Whisper to counter, since game ends fast in dominion, plus the healing reduction and the fact that lifesteal is calculated AFTER armor.

How do you have a viable way to counter thornmail, especially range carries. Riot has plan to buff range carries, so this is the issue they need to worry about.
Imagine? I played as Vayne 2 games ago, 4/5 of the enemy team had thornmails cause we were AD heavy. Teams were pretty evenly matched, I went 26/8/16 and we won after a really long game. Just cause they have thornmail doesnt mean all hope is lost for AD carries, its a strong counterpick but it doesnt define the game.

A lot of AD carries have ways around it, Vayne has her silver bolts, Kog'Maw / Twitch / Yi / Teemo / Kayle do a mix of physical and magic dmg, and jax and akali are heavily AP anyway. Tryn has his ult where he can kill without worrying about dying to thorn. There are ways around it.

On one hand it counters AD really hard for 2k gold, but if you have a decent team comp, its 2k wasted gold against AP casters and a 2k gold drop in dmg output so it has its downsides


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Panwar

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickert View Post
In Dominon, rarely I see an ad Yi/Tryn/Trundle/Olaf and range carries in general...
Sometimes I wonder if the people posting in Dom balance threads ever play Dom. Yi, and Tryn are very common picks in Dom, it's a trial sometimes to not get a team that goes double ranged ad let along trying to get 1, and the amount of "Olaf on both teams" games I've had is ridiculous.


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Elealar

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panwar View Post
Sometimes I wonder if the people posting in Dom balance threads ever play Dom. Yi, and Tryn are very common picks in Dom, it's a trial sometimes to not get a team that goes double ranged ad let along trying to get 1, and the amount of "Olaf on both teams" games I've had is ridiculous.
Yi and Tryn are signs that you're just playing with/against bad players.


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SirLucious LftFt

Senior Member

11-13-2011

i dont think yi is that bad in dominon if there are 3+ beefy dps yea, but he can 3-5 hit squishies end game regardless of how good ur doing because of the auto feed.

its a lot easier if u have a tank but if people work together a yii can wrek, especialy a team with only 1 or 2 stuns/snare