Don't you think thornmail punish AD carries too harsh?

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Rickert

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Imagine 3 or even 5 of the opposing team get thornmails. Suddenly 3 ad carries on your team deals negligible damage and become liability on your team. You won't have enough time to get enough lifesteal and Last Whisper to counter, since game ends fast in dominion, plus the healing reduction and the fact that lifesteal is calculated AFTER armor.

How do you have a viable way to counter thornmail, especially range carries. Riot has plan to buff range carries, so this is the issue they need to worry about.


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Zzym

Senior Member

11-13-2011

balanced team ? get some ap caster in there .


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Stimuz

Senior Member

11-13-2011

If anything it punishes the underdog AD carries too much. It sure as hell doesn't punish sion/kog'maw/vayne/jax enough.


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ScyrinPain

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Senior Member

11-13-2011

Because majority of players on Dominion don't realise how much Thornmail stomps, and as such, don't get it.

This is also the reason why characters like Jax and Akali truly shine in Dominion, as all other AD pubstompers (GP, Yi, Trynd) can all be countered/lessened in their badassery by the one item as they deal pure phys dmg, while Jax and Akali thrive off auto-attacks dealing magic damage.


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Rickert

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Yeah any tanky dps can buy a thornmail and stomp physical carries like their sons. I think the damage should be stored like Odyn's veil, or the damage reflection should be lowered. Just look at how pathetic the damage on Odyn's veil stores to make a nuke. It's nowhere comparable to the "nuke" from thornmail.


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aim1essgun

Senior Member

11-13-2011

I guess my first question is: why is this a problem in Dominion but not in SR?


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KommunistKevin

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim1essgun View Post
I guess my first question is: why is this a problem in Dominion but not in SR?

Ryze gets shut down hard by CC, Ryze needs to stand in the teamfight and spam spells uninterrupted for a good 5 seconds

Champs like Brand are so much better, because he can Blow his entire load from far range while Ryze needs to go close range and needs to stay there for an extended period


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Xalerwons

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Senior Member

11-13-2011

Typically, characters that cannot deal with thornmail have a slew of other problems.

Also, this is Dominion, if you are a range carry that cannot deal with Thornmail, surprise, you shouldn't concentrate your efforts on targets with Thornmail.

Do you know why Odyn's Veil doesn't reflect 30% damage taken before mitigation? So AP casters don't literally kill themselves nuking an enemy. AP casters typically have poor sustainable damage, so just removing the burst portion through MR is bad enough.

There's too much right-click fanboi support here.

Thornmail is an extremely narrow item in terms of stat distribution and is only gold efficient if you are facing auto-attackers with relatively high auto-attack damage output relative to the rest of their team.

For 2000 gold, you can have Thornmail. For 2140 gold, you can get 90 armor, 48 MR which gives you tremendously more EHP.

I suspect this is a not-so-subtle Rammus QQ thread.


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Ido Hav Juan

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Thornmail exists because people are dumb enough to use a team of 3-4 ad carries and MAYBE a tank (and shaco)

If thornmail is countering your team so hard then maybe you should think about your team being badly thought out rather than the item


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Rickert

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xalerwons View Post
Typically, characters that cannot deal with thornmail have a slew of other problems.

Also, this is Dominion, if you are a range carry that cannot deal with Thornmail, surprise, you shouldn't concentrate your efforts on targets with Thornmail.

Do you know why Odyn's Veil doesn't reflect 30% damage taken before mitigation? So AP casters don't literally kill themselves nuking an enemy. AP casters typically have poor sustainable damage, so just removing the burst portion through MR is bad enough.

There's too much right-click fanboi support here.

Thornmail is an extremely narrow item in terms of stat distribution and is only gold efficient if you are facing auto-attackers with relatively high auto-attack damage output relative to the rest of their team.

For 2000 gold, you can have Thornmail. For 2140 gold, you can get 90 armor, 48 MR which gives you tremendously more EHP.

I suspect this is a not-so-subtle Rammus QQ thread.
In Dominon, rarely I see an ad Yi/Tryn/Trundle/Olaf and range carries in general, since these champions having either no cc or mobility or durability in battle, and is easy to counter with a thornmail.

What if you have no target without a thornmail? Thornmail is not only good for auto-attackers, but it is also a good item for tower diving. Problem with physical dps is that they have to get ad items to be effective, otherwise they will just be free kills for opposing team. Meanwhile, some champions only build mostly defense items, but still able to deal tons of damage.

If ap-thornmail is a problem, then just make more spellvamp items to balance it.

It's ridiculous to see Soraka with ap items and a thornmail to kill ad carries. Soraka is support and should not mean to champions which are intend to deal damage. If you think Soraka is just a healing bot, you just have bad Sorakas.

Only a few exceptions, such as ad sion, but it's not enough.
Edit: Also the whole is greater than the sume of it. A thornmail is still better than 2 chain vests and a negatron cloak. Saying you buy armor is not effective against caster is just like saying MR won't counter physical damage.