Casters vs Non-Casters

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WhiteMantisX

Member

09-29-2009

Hi LoL-Team, thanks for giving me the opportunity to participate here. Surprisingly, the game is better balanced than i hoped, but there are serious issues especially in the late game. All caster classes become completely useless in the later stages of the game, because their damage does not scale like the physical damage classes. Meaning: Casters are very nice in the beginning, grwo strong in the mid-game and become totally worthless in the lategame. \\ Some caster classes defend themselves better than other, but this is rather skill dependent (stun, silence, root). A good example are well played tank classes like Rammus, Malphite or Singed. Its impossible for a caster to take down a 4k Tank with huge health reg and wearing Force of Nature (+80 Magic Resist). Even if some of you might say, they already did it...i will promise you, that its impossible because no matter how good your items are...you just can't. I think the best argument is the fact, that mostly physical classes are played, namely (Jax, Master Yi, Katarina, Corki, Ashe, Warwick, Twisted Fate and maybe Ryze (he uses AP but they just go into his Autoattack which makes him an untypical caster. By the way: Wearing +120 magic resist against Ryze makes him worthless too.) So what I#M trying to say is that you will have to change something in the game to provide fair chances for casters until the endgame. It cannot be the solution that people only use Kassadin and equip him with +Attack Rate and + AttackDamage to survive. Casters should be casters, and they only have 3-4 Attackskills with cooldowns...so hitting someone during the endgame with all three skills should do very very much damage. When I play a tank and i see a caster during endgame, i just go and kill him...if he manages to escape thats fine, but I never never even come close to dying (if there weren't other players involved.) In order to not to whine all the time i thought about possible solutions. 1.) Let physical chars do physical damage with their abilities....almost all abilities of the physical classes do magic damage. Buying Force of Nature and Mercury Treads (+120 Magic Resist) helps A LOT more against all classes than armor, because even the physicals champions use Magic Attack on all their Abilities (which usually do the heavy damage) Player will now have to think about getting Armor or Magic Resist. 2.) Scale the caster skills. 1 AP = 2-3 Damage. Its okay if a caster does 1000+ Damage with his cast...he got a cooldown on it, he has no next chance...melee classes hack and slay you somtimes for 10x 400crits in a few seconds. There is a Scepter which costs about 3000gold, and it gives you 2% of your maximum mana as AP...is this a joke? Those are 80 AP if you have 4000 Mana...sometimes scaled with 0.3 I really don't know what you can do there, but something has to be done. I know noone who plays a caster if he seriously wants to win I'm open for other opinions...some of you might say I'm wroog, but i played a few games, and sometimes you can become strong as mage, but this only works, if the opposing team sucks. Trust me! So long... Best regards, WhiteMantis


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wootini

Member

09-29-2009

ahhh Wall o' Text!

I am starting to agree with you on this... I have seen caster pwn face early on, but by the time we are all 18, I would have 100ish magic resist sometimes on my Sad Mummy and i would laugh at them trying to kill me...
not too sure if they people i am playing sucked or if it needs a little change...i wouldn't say much though...but a little. I guess we will see what everyone has to say.


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Vindico Atrum

Member

09-29-2009

Agreed 100%. Been thinking about this myself.

AP is a step in the right direction, but right now, its not working properly. Melee out-dps ANY caster by 45 mins by so much its unreal. 800 AP veigar dies in 3 seconds to a Yi who farmed. I think the problem could be as small as Riot giving too low ratios to alot of abilities. Tbh, NO ability should be less than 1dmg/ap. Nunu is right, 1:1 in ice blast, and 3:1 on absolute zero. Nunu can have 250 AP( easy to get) and get some health and armor too, and have a chance at killing that farmed Yi, but Lich has no chance whatsoever, because to be effective he needs triple the AP nunu needs, therefore no gold for health items.

When zeal clocks in at 1195 for the insane bonuses it gives, yet the cheapests (recipe) item for AP is Fiends at 1200ish for a whole 30 AP, its ridiculous. The cost on the AP items needs lowering. Lich bane for 3400+, all good, but 80AP? Sure it gives you a nice attack next.. but serious? 80AP for all that gold? Melee can pick up a frozen mallet with less, have enough health from the mallet ALONE to stand and soak up your damage, and then procede to open you a shiny new ass hole, with the lovely perma snare it grants.

Thats another thing-

Mallet = 800 health/20 damage/perma snare.
Rylais = 550 health/80 AP/ 1.5 second stupidly ridiculous snare

Not a hard choice. Melee are still kings in the same mold that makes AGI carries win late games in dota. Spells just don't scale enough right now.

Morgana's root has a strange way? As you lvl the ratio increases? Sop at lvl 1, 1 AP may give 1dmg, but at lvl 18 it gives 2? That is a brilliant idea and should be on every ability in the game. So if by 45 mins I have farmed 600 AP, but I am squishy as hell, I can actually damage **** with my AP, before I die.

Right now, ashe/trist > any caster. Like I said, one frozen mallet and some attack speed and casters die out.


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Shizz

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Senior Member

09-29-2009

While everything you guys are saying is true, I think raising the AP ratios might be a bit too much for early/mid game.

I do like the idea of lowering the cost of AP items though.


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Akarias

Member

09-29-2009

I agree that skills don't scale enough or really for most characters don't DO enough in general. Fiddlestick's nuke is not terribly useful outside of jungling maybe. Veigar's two single-target nukes do practically the same thing unless you're facing ryze. Annie's cone of fire is waaaay too short ranged. I'm fine if you want to make casters scale along with melee to differentiate from dota, but the casters really do need to be stronger and more useful (like morgana/corki) since melee aren't bad in lane either (hi jax)


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Duffie

Senior Member

09-29-2009

I agree with this. I have often thought the same thing.


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h4rdcor3

Senior Member

09-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsession View Post
Melee out-dps ANY caster by 45 mins by so much its unreal. 800 AP veigar dies in 3 seconds to a Yi who farmed.
This right here is what really makes me cringe at the rest of your post. most game don't last 45 min. And most asters have a root/stun which makes up for their lack of damage. yi doesn't have a way to slow except when he picks up an item. Morgona and Ryze both have a root. Vigar has an aoe trap, aniva has a slow and wall, yeti has a slow, teric has a stun. See the trend? Casters aren't suppose to do damage, that is what the DPS characters are suppose to do, lots of damage. Ashe is the only carry that has a consistent slow and her DPS isn't near what tristana, jax, or yi puts out. Jax needs to proc a stun, trist needs a jump and land near someone, yi has nothing. Yet Ashe is still one of the most played champions, even in the higher levels of play.

So right now I think most casters are just fine. they can hold their own in team battles, provide decent enough damage, but their main job is to stop the dps long enough to kill them.


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News

Member

09-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizz View Post
While everything you guys are saying is true, I think raising the AP ratios might be a bit too much for early/mid game.

I do like the idea of lowering the cost of AP items though.
Simple fix to AP ratios from beginning to end-game. Make the AP ratios scale up with skill rank. (sorry for any spelling errors)


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Zeyk

Member

09-29-2009

Casters have more utility, and most of their damage is frontloaded which lets them stay much safer. Abilities should not be able to compete with physical DPS blow-for-blow.


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OctopusDropkick

Senior Member

09-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeyk View Post
Casters have more utility, and most of their damage is frontloaded which lets them stay much safer. Abilities should not be able to compete with physical DPS blow-for-blow.
That's great, except the game is suffering from an extreme imbalancing toward one direction. They don't have enough utility or frontloaded damage to make up for the physical DPS blow-for-blow that other heroes enjoy.


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