New Mastery Tree's

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Amorgan310

Senior Member

11-12-2011

bad comprehension is bad


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-13-2011

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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauldrath View Post
So, what do you all think about grabbing Last Whisper and Weapon Expertise, then running around with 40+15+10=65% armor pen?

Also, the removal of Ardor from defense tree makes 9/21/0 caster builds a lot worse. Tenacity being removed and replaced with only 1.5% reduction from Honor Guard, combined with a huge increase in the amount of health you can get is a big nerf to characters with built-in sustain, like shields and heals, who go all the way through the defense tree. Atma's Impaler is going to be a much better item with Juggernaut, as well, so you'll be seeing that more often.

Mercenary doesn't seem worth it. I was thinking I'd get it for those games where I can't seem to get anything but assists, but usually games end before anyone gets more than 20 kills+assists - 240 gold isn't even going to get you Cloth Armor. It would probably be decent and reasonably-balanced if it gave 50 extra gold per assist (in Dominion, of course), but no extra bonus for kills.

Executioner is probably going to make Dominion worse. Now all the people who decide to avoid fights until the enemy is low on health are going to be better at diving in for that last hit, but getting that first 60% taken off is going to be just as hard, or harder, than before, and the tactic of getting people to chase you with low health will be much worse.


Well reguarding the Last Whisper comment, I dont think the math would work like that, but it should still be very effective. It should be 6 flat armor pen, and what remains of the opponents remaining armor would have 40% reduction from last whisper, and 10% from Weapon Expertise. Not sure that you would actually get the full 50% either, because you dont get 55% from Void Staff (40% mag pen)+ Archaic Knowledge(15% mag pen), you get 49%.

As far as Mercenary, well, like with most anything, you need to stack the effects for them to be very significant, but stacking gold producing masteries and items could potentially have major effect considering how little gold you get from kills.

As far as Executioner goes... Unfortunately you may be right. I could easily see 90% of players using the offensive tree to get Executioner now because they want to rack up a big score, further encouraging them to play for personal score, taking away from teamwork, making the goal of actually winning secondary. That part of this game drives me crazy.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-13-2011

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Originally Posted by Narcomancer View Post
I see burst casters dominating the game in the near future. OMG LEBLANC!!
Yes, definately LeBlanc, but also Kat, and any assassin that has AP ults.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
Almost downvoted for this then I saw the first page, lulz.

My thoughts:

It's actually a LOT of the **** we want on dominion, CDR has been a MASSIVE complaint for anything cooldown dependant, and feeling locked into a specific, CDR-heavy build is no fun with the like.. 3 good items that give it. So, hells to the yes for 4% CDR for everyone (8 points in offense tree), with an optional 6% or .5-8% scaling in the other two trees.

Also, did you notice? No strength of spirit is a direct minus 35 HP5 nerf to Ryze. He needed it.

No dodge mastery either but I've never really been sure how much of a difference that one made.

One more totally awesome thing: Wealth. Another 40 starting gold allows a few new starting combos, including recurve bow + boots. Dunno if it's worth running utility for though xP




Doesn't Penetration stack multiplicatively? I get 52.5%, still quite good but not worth dropping 2k on the last whisper without enemies building fairly tanky.



3% increased HP OP, nerf Irelia.

If you're Nunu (2381 base health at 18), that's another 71 HP at max level, which is one and a half bonus AD. I think we'll live.



6% is nice but hardly game breaking, did the 4% from Havoc ever seem OP? If people want to play dumb for a 1/20th increase in damage then that's on them xP


The thing that worries me about Executioner isn't that it will be significantly more effective, its that it will encourage people to value kills more and by default, winning less when inevitable circumstances force players to make those decisions.

CDR OPTIONS! YES!!!!! Omg it will be nice to have more construction options for high cdr builds. This is possibly the thing that excites me the most out of everything.


"40% reduction from last whisper, and 10% from Weapon Expertise. Not sure that you would actually get the full 50% either, because you dont get 55% from Void Staff (40% mag pen)+ Archaic Knowledge(15% mag pen), you get 49%. "

Wealth is truly awesome because it increases your starting item options. Even though it may not seem like much gold, it would create all kinds of options that I have yet to investigate.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Bump


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Elealar

Senior Member

11-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DedPheonix View Post

Well reguarding the Last Whisper comment, I dont think the math would work like that, but it should still be very effective. It should be 6 flat armor pen, and what remains of the opponents remaining armor would have 40% reduction from last whisper, and 10% from Weapon Expertise. Not sure that you would actually get the full 50% either, because you dont get 55% from Void Staff (40% mag pen)+ Archaic Knowledge(15% mag pen), you get 49%.
The math goes like this:
- You have a percentile reduction.
- You remove that from 100%.
- Additional percentile reductions are reduced from the remaining percentile.

In other words, e.g. Archaic Knowledge + Voidstaff = 1*(1-0.4)*(1-0.15) = 1*0.6*0.85 = 0.51. Your final penetration is 1-That or 1-0.51 = 0.49 = 49%. Add the Dominion passive and you have 1*(1-0.4)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.05) = 0.4845 = 48.45%. Obviously, this being multiplication the order of terms doesn't matter; regardless of the percentiles, the answer remains the same. And yeah, the 1 in the start is irrelevant and you can leave it out; I was just trying to showcase that you start off 100% with it.

Last Whisper + New Mastery + Old Map Passive would be:
1-(1-0.4)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.10) = 0.592 or 59.2%.

Just as a proof of concept, two hypothetical instances of 40% penetration to the same stat would be 1-(1-0.4)*(1-0.4) = 64% (far cry from the additive 80%)


And the Dodge-mastery is massive; the number of times you can catch someone with proc off a creep or escape due to dodge proc is just insane. 10% Movement Speed is a lot (it's almost a friggin' free Zeal) and this'll make Dodge Yellows and Ninja Tabi way worse. With Nimbleness, you win every remotely close chase. Now there's little reason to run Dodge Yellows over Armor Yellows.

Ninja Tabi are still a super-efficient Armor item against auto attackers but they lose on of their key functions especially on mobility-dependent champions like Singed. And obviously, Udyr, Jax & Sivir are all sad. Of course, 90% of the playerbase doesn't even know the item can ever be bought on non-Jax champs in spite of it being superstrong and negating auto attack procs on non-autohits, such as Vayne outside her Q, Udyr Tiger Proc (YES YOU CAN DODGE IT DON'T RESPOND WITH "NO YOU CAN'T IT GOES THROUGH IT" PLEASE; Bear works through Dodge, not Tiger) and Kog in general so whatever. Only few players will notice this.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-13-2011

"The math goes like this:
- You have a percentile reduction.
- You remove that from 100%.
- Additional percentile reductions are reduced from the remaining percentile.

In other words, e.g. Archaic Knowledge + Voidstaff = 1*(1-0.4)*(1-0.15) = 1*0.6*0.85 = 0.51. Your final penetration is 1-That or 1-0.51 = 0.49 = 49%. Add the Dominion passive and you have 1*(1-0.4)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.05) = 0.4845 = 48.45%. Obviously, this being multiplication the order of terms doesn't matter; regardless of the percentiles, the answer remains the same. And yeah, the 1 in the start is irrelevant and you can leave it out; I was just trying to showcase that you start off 100% with it.

Last Whisper + New Mastery + Old Map Passive would be:
1-(1-0.4)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.10) = 0.592 or 59.2%.

Just as a proof of concept, two hypothetical instances of 40% penetration to the same stat would be 1-(1-0.4)*(1-0.4) = 64% (far cry from the additive 80%)"


Thank you very much for clearing that up. Your post was appreciated.


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NetherGate

Senior Member

11-14-2011

I really appreciate your support. There have been a few players who have gone out of their way to defend me and the tools I've tried to offer the community I want to say that it has not gone unnoticed, and you are the players I do this for.

As you know I have an exceptional amount of experience both through sheer volume, and an unending drive to test different builds and tactics.

I've offered 3 tools to the community of serious LoL Dominion players, they are as follows:

1) "Playing for personal score Vs. playing for win" which outlines the importance and accountablity of teamwork, the general tactics of leading your opponent, and in net affect, what I believe to me the leading metagame strategy that will inevitably be used by the top competetive dominion teams.

2) The thread "New Mastery Tree's" is a tool that is intended to consolidate and organize, and prepare for the massive changes that will come when the aforementioned takes place.

3) The "Unbiased tier list", (or as you coined it "objective" tier list) doesn't exist anymore, as we know it was thoroughly rejected by the community. (Especially harshly by certain players who refused to let such a tool exist. They demanded that I no longer keep the tier list unbiased, but change it to mimic their own tier list, which would mean it was no longer unbiased, or "objective", and add no meaning or value to the community than was previously there. Indeed I outlined many points in which it varied from my own opinion, but the trollish players refused to believe that I was remaining objective, and made a point of running it out of the forums.) So be it. A few players have asked me to send PM them my this tier list, and so I believe I will maintain it for those players which ask for it only. Feel free to ask.



I have a few general general chat threads out there that are not at all serious tools, but are just meant for lighthearted discussion and for the most part are inconsequential.


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MrSpaz

Senior Member

11-14-2011

Quote:
Will Juggernauts "10% reduction of duration of incoming disables" stack with tenacity?
Yes, multiplicatively.

Quote:
Offensive branch is now much more attractive to mage's. Will Mage's dominate? Burst casters in particular? LeBlanc, Kat,....
The weakness of burst casters on this map doesn't have much to do with their damage; it has to do with their cooldowns. If you can survive the burst (a lot of champions can), they're stuck doing very little until their cooldowns are up. Meanwhile, bruisers and AD carries are still dishing out ridiculous sustained damage. A small (yes -- small) increase in the offense tree isn't really putting them over the edge.

Quote:
Will Executioner encourage players to prize personal score higher than they already do, making the goal of actually winning an even more distant secondary goal than it so often presently seems to be?
This "problem" really only exists among low-ranked players.